Advice Question: Embracing My Jewish Heritage Later In Life
Hello Nichole and Callie,
I apologize for not letting you know sooner, but I would love if you talk about it. Ever since the “whiteness” episode I’ve been confused about how to handle my Judaism. I’ve been “passing” as white my whole adult life… I don’t look Jewish, my father’s family changed their last name so my name doesn’t sound Jewish, and since I rejected the sexist, patriarchal bullshit of the religion in my youth I never identify as Jewish to anyone who doesn’t know where I come from. My family still identifies as Jewish, but they are mostly on the east coast and I live in California and don’t see them much or for holidays. Anyway, I would love to embrace my non-whiteness, but don’t know how to separate the religion from the culture, or whatever it is… I’ve heard there’s Jewish DNA but I don’t understand that at all!
Thanks! love you two and the new show!
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What are the only kind of jokes you can tell during the quarantine? (Thanks, Amanda!)
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Update: Thoughts On The Open Country Protests
Nichole gives a quick update about our segment last week re: the open the country protests after discussing it with a listener, mostly highlighting the fascist motivations behind the protests and how the whole topic of who to try to reach out to and who to see as the enemy is one that continues to confound her.
Main Topic: Spoiler-Free Knives Out Discussion
We have a quick chat about Knives Out, highlighting a few things we noticed as themes in the movie but without giving anything away. Mostly, we just liked it and thought it was a fun lil romp.
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Nichole [00:00:26] Hey, everyone. I am Nichole.
Callie [00:00:28] And I’m Callie.
Nichole [00:00:30] And today we’ll be talking about..
Callie [00:00:32] Today we are going to do an advice question. It’s been a while since we’ve done one of those, so we are very excited to dip our toes back into that pool. And then we will also be doing a short fun main segment on Knives Out, a movie that we watched last night.
Callie [00:00:49] We are taking a little break from politics for the most part, much as we can ever really turn it off completely and just doing something kind of fun and silly and light.
Callie [00:01:00] So.
Nichole [00:01:01] Yeah.
Nichole [00:01:03] So our first segment here, we’re going to answer an advice question. We have a question from Deb. So thank you, Deb. And Deb says, hello, Nichole and Callie. I apologize for not letting you know sooner, but I would love if you would talk about it. Ever since the whiteness episode, I’ve been confused.
Nichole [00:01:24] Oh, and for new listeners to Bitchy Shitshow Deb is referring to an episode we did on our old podcast, Vegan Warrior Princesses Attack!, which someone on Twitter said was corny.
Callie [00:01:38] How dare you.
Nichole [00:01:39] And I was like, listen, it was very cutting edge and cool.
Nichole [00:01:43] Back when we picked it both start laughing.
Callie [00:01:44] I mean…
Nichole [00:01:51] No, that’s a fact.
Nichole [00:01:56] So on Twitter, I retweeted it and I was like, if you think the name is corny, wait till you get to the dad jokes. Haha!
Callie [00:02:02] Yeah.
Nichole [00:02:02] Cause we didn’t start those for a while.
Callie [00:02:08] No, I remember them being pretty earlly on.
Nichole [00:02:13] Well, I know it feels that way to you.
Nichole [00:02:19] So going back to the question, ever since the Whiteness episode, I’ve been confused about how to handle my Judaism. I’ve been passing as white my whole adult life. I don’t look Jewish. My father’s family changed their last name, so my name doesn’t sound Jewish.
Nichole [00:02:34] And since I rejected the sexist patriarchal bullshit of the religion of my youth, I never identify as Jewish to anyone who doesn’t know where I came from. My family still identifies as Jewish, but they are mostly on the East Coast and I live in California -what up?! We do too!- and don’t see much, don’t see them much, or for holidays. Anyway, I would love to embrace my non-whiteness, but I don’t know how to separate their religion from the culture or whatever it is. I’ve heard there’s Jewish DNA, but I don’t understand it at all. Thinks I love you too. And the new show, Debbie.
Nichole [00:03:08] So this one, I think is pretty.
Nichole [00:03:13] I think I have a pretty simple kind of just like starting point for Debbie. And I think a lot of this stuff has to be pretty individual and personalized to you and kind of what you want to get out of the journey.
Nichole [00:03:27] I know there’s a lot of people that I’m aware of kind of in our activism circles who have roots, you know, somewhat recently embraced identities like their indigenous roots or maybe their Arabic roots. So this is something a lot of people are doing as a way to kind of decolonize and just really get in touch with their ancestors and with their heritage. So I think it’s a wonderful thing to do.
Nichole [00:03:55] The thing I would just suggest is to… Try to find groups online that you can join of people… Like there’s a lot of Jewish atheists out there. So maybe find some Jewish atheist groups that you can join.
Nichole [00:04:15] I think it’s very important to be around your own people and to be around people who can kind of teach you the culture and welcome you in as someone who’s not necessarily trying to explore this from the religious aspect.
Nichole [00:04:30] And these are also people who have, you know… For instance, we have a lot of listeners of the show who are white Jewish people. And, you know, I think they they understand what it’s like to navigate life from that space.
Nichole [00:04:49] So I think just finding people that you identify with and letting them kind of lead the way, they can suggest books to you, movies to you, and even just having conversations with people like that can just really help to feel like you have that sense of community and to start getting some direction on where you’re going with your exploration and, and what kind of identity you’re eventually going to form around this piece of you that you haven’t really explored much before or presented yourself with before. I don’t want to give out any groups on here publicly just because they want- I know a lot of these groups are pretty protective of themselves for good reason. But I can say I know, Debbie, for instance, I’m pretty sure that you’re in our Facebook groups. So we have the Bitchy should show experience on Facebook and we also have a Discord server now which you can contact us to get access to. And like in the Discord Server, I would be more than happy to start a channel, you know, for people, Jewish folks who want to just commune with each other and have a space for themselves. I’d be happy to start a group for anyone who wanted that in the Discord server. So just let us know if that’s something you want. But yeah.
Nichole [00:06:08] I just think find your people, you know, find people who are living the kind of experience that you think you want to live and just learn from them, you know, and just be proud of who you are and where you come from.
Callie [00:06:24] Yeah, absolutely.
Callie [00:06:27] I think that’s great advice. I definitely think as finding groups to tap into and seeing like how they model it in a way that you would like to, you know, there’s no reason why we can’t kind of like look to others and take what we want and discard what we don’t. Right? And so I think it’s really cool to go out and kind of find spaces that you resonate with and kind of see which practices feel good to you to incorporate into your life. I like that a lot. It’s funny that we answer this question now when we are because I’ve actually, like, had this… Weird like kind of sudden urge to like investigate my family history. Like it’s something that I’ve kind of been passingly curious on, but for some reason the other night I literally like stayed up all night and was doing one of those like, you know, family trees and was doing all this research and stuff and found some really cool information. And I have a lot more ancestors… I did one of those silly like DNA tests, which I know are kind of problematic and that’s a whole thing to get it to. But I found out I’m like much more Irish than I even thought I was. And I was like, that’s kind of cool. And then when I actually started looking at my family line, I realized like, I have a lot more ancestors. And I would have thought like I can actually trace back to when they came over from Ireland. And so that’s something I kind of want to, like, look into, you know, is like Irish culture and history and all that stuff. So I think it can feel really good to like do some research and kind of investigate your culture and where you come from. If that feels right to you, I know for some people like getting into family history does not feel good or right, which is totally fair. And I get that. But if it does, maybe that’s something that’ll kind of help you as you’re piecing together and navigating this, you know, your identity. And then one other little thing that I just want to say, and this isn’t like directly related to the question, but it’s something that came to mind when I first read it. It’s that with this and I think with like all other kinds of identities, especially, I know it’s a tricky space to navigate: being Jewish and passing as white. Because like, obviously, there’s still so much anti-Semitism in our country and around the world. But then there’s also this like white privilege aspect that in certain spaces you get it then in another species you don’t. And that can be very tricky. And I think part of tapping in to a culture or an identity that you have can feel really awkward or uncomfortable, especially if you feel like you haven’t directly suffered any oppression because of it. And if you’re kind of taking on or leaning more into an identity that has been historically oppressed, that can be uncomfortable. And so I just wanted to say, like, you shouldn’t that shouldn’t stop you from exploring it. And there’s there’s no reason why you have to kind of take on like a mantle of suffering in order to, like, tap into a piece of your identity.
Callie [00:09:53] Does that make sense?
Nichole [00:09:55] Yeah, I was going to add to- kind of to your point, that a lot of times I think when people are trying to step into you and exploring and adopting an identity that they haven’t previously, it does a lot of times center around the oppression tied to that identity. And that’s obviously a very important foundational piece of understanding that culture. But I think it’s equally, if not more so important, to explore the identity separate from the oppression. Meaning, you know, explore Jewish traditions, Jewish culture, Jewish humor. You know, it’s just all of the beautiful things about the culture that are not just centered around the bad things that have happened. And we see that a lot, especially with people dipping their toes into like, oh, this is a part of me, but it’s a part of me that I haven’t really lived or explored. And now I’m just kind of drowning in the oppression side of it. And that may happen. You know, when you start to open yourselves up. It happens to all SJWs right.
Nichole [00:11:11] Like you just generally learn and understand how bad the world is.
Nichole [00:11:17] And that can be a lot. But do you think that, you know, like I follow a lot of black media. And that’s something that black folks talk a lot about in their media.
Nichole [00:11:30] And with each other is, you know, yeah, obviously we’ve experienced a lot of bad shit, but like, we should not be defined by our oppression. Like, we had beautiful cultures that got disrupted by, like, slavery, things like that. And we need to find ways to be able to embrace and celebrate and picture- I mean, that’s the entire point and purpose of Afro-Futurism is to imagine a world and what black folks would have and be without the experience of oppression.
Nichole [00:12:07] And that kind of work is so fucking critical for decolonizing and dismantling oppression because you need to be able to picture yourself outside of these bonds and restraints that have been put on you by white supremacy.
Nichole [00:12:24] Yeah. So I just want to say, you know, definitely learn and understand like you may be more sensitive to anti-Semitism once you start connecting with these people and and learning and you may, you know, end up digging into learning more about the Holocaust, learning more about also what’s happening in Israel. You know, there’s a lot there to explore and that’s all important and good. But I think it’s also equally important to just be exploring this as something that can be celebrated as something that as beautiful and as something that adds something to your life as well.
Callie [00:13:04] Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. I mean, I just, I think you said it so beautifully.
Callie [00:13:12] I think the point that I don’t think I quite made that I want wanted to was that which works well with what you just said is that like a lot of times when you start exploring kind of a new facet of your identity or a piece of cultural history, like the guilt of our other privileges can kind of keep us it make us feel like we can’t fully embrace this new identity. And I think that’s what I was trying to say, like don’t let that hold you back. You know, it’s always good to be aware of like your privileges, especially, you know, if that’s been the most of your experience. Right. Is like white passing or, you know, what have you growing up secular and people not really knowing you’re Jewish. So maybe you didn’t experience it directly. And but I think that that like holds people back. I mean, it’s not obviously exactly the same thing, but after I realized and then came out, I was as queer like it’s that was kind of a weird thing that I experienced of like it was such a joyful thing to me and I was so embraced by the people in my life. But I obviously know that there’s like this horror that was very fortunate, like a lot of people don’t have that experience and that kind of feeling of like, oh, I’m I’m not really sharing in this like a collective suffering so do I get to like share in and embrace this like culture? You know, this cultural, beautiful, like tapestry of of queer identity and queer history and stuff. So. But I think the answer is yes. Absolutely. Like, if you do it cautiously and sensitively, knowing that your experience isn’t everyone else’s experience, it’s like you can still be very welcome in like carrying forward. The thing is, is we want those identities carried forward. Right. Like, we don’t want those like marginalized identities, like being kind of stamped out with the cultural norm. So it’s good that people are holding onto them and embracing them, even if you feel like you’re not kind of carrying some of the bad parts to or or haven’t yet.
Callie [00:15:28] So.
Nichole [00:15:29] Yeah, I love that I felt the same way coming out as queer and also as trans non-binary.
Nichole [00:15:35] You know, I still struggle with that a lot. All the trans people that I hang out with online I fucking like love the culture and I feel so welcomed and accepted and that’s beautiful. But I still struggle a lot with currently being cis passing.
Nichole [00:15:54] And- whatever that means. Right. But I’m just not treated as a trans person when I go outside, which is in its own way, a kind of erasure. And so it’s very complicated.
Nichole [00:16:05] You know, and it and I struggle a lot with like how to process my experience and, you know, just how upset I’m allowed to be about it. And what my place in all of it is. And so just understand that that may be something you grapple with and that’s normal. But yeah, you have as much claim to your identity as anyone else. Yeah. But also being sensitive to the fact that, you know, your experience of things may have been a lot more privileged than someone else. So just always, you know, keep an eye on how much space you’re taking up. And just allow yourself a good amount of time to just kind of listen and learn. And I know that’s been really helpful for me. I have a bunch of Facebook groups and stuff I’m in where I just kind of like read what people post. And I’m not saying that I can’t participate. Of course I can. But it just helped me a lot with that anxiety to just be like, let me just see what my people are saying and the experiences they have. And, I just- one of our people in the Discord channel recommended Marsha’s Plate. I believe it’s called it’s a podcast by three trans, black folks. And, you know, it’s good to just listen to something like that and just feel like this is an experience that I don’t have right to help. Give me perspective where it’s like there are some commonalities that you can kind of be like, oh, you know, my people. But then there’s other stuff where it’s like, yeah, I don’t deal with that. And it’s good to just have that insight and perspective of just kind of understanding where you are on the spectrum of things and then that can guide how much space you take up and just sort of how you talk about stuff to make sure you’re being sensitive to those who are more oppressed than you.
Callie [00:17:56] Yeah, yeah.
Callie [00:17:57] But knowing that we can connect in ways that aren’t just tied to like the oppression and the bad shit. I think a lot of times in SJW spaces we get really like weighed down and tied together with like trauma experiences. And sometimes I’ve seen a lot that there is almost this like guilt that you feel like you can’t move out of that or you can’t ever start to like kind of move beyond it. I mean, you’re never going to be completely out of it, right. But that you have to kind of stay there in order to like be valid or you- and and really like, that’s not it. That’s not the point. I think about our the conversation we had with Aph Ko when we did the interview with her for her new book that came out at the end of last year, Racism as Zoological Witchcraft. And that was one of the things that she’s said that I think about all the time. And it’s that like the point is to like do the activism and to fight now, to like to have a normal life. Like, it’s not to fight forever. It’s not to, like, live in the the bad shit forever. And I think, like more activists need to hear that message because it almost feels like you- it almost feels like sometimes our actions don’t line up with that. That like, yeah, we may never get to see it, but we should work in a way that’s we’re working towards not having to just live in like trauma all the time or live in oppression all the time and and kind of bear that emotional weight. You know, it’s ideally we would just get to embrace like the joy and the happiness of your culture and your experiences and bonds that you have with people who share those things. So.
Nichole [00:19:45] Yeah, absolutely.
Callie [00:19:46] Yeah.
Nichole [00:19:48] So thanks, Deb!
Callie [00:19:49] Yeah.
Nichole [00:19:49] Great question.
Callie [00:19:50] Great question.
Nichole [00:19:52] And for you and anyone else who’s interested, you can do it. Join the Bitchy Shitshow Experience on Facebook. It’s a private group, so you have to request to join. Please answer the fucking question.
Callie [00:20:05] Oop! Got a hint of Mad Mommy coming out!
Nichole [00:20:09] Yeah. Yeah.
Nichole [00:20:11] You’ll get to see my famous mad mommy purse when I’m like, Alright, children. Enough!
Nichole [00:20:15] I have to come in and scold everybody.
Nichole [00:20:24] But it’s a heavily moderated group. The community is fucking incredible.
Nichole [00:20:29] Like so amazing.
Nichole [00:20:31] People are able to talk to each other about even really sensitive stuff and get through it without anybody being canceled unless someone needs to be canceled. And then that’s when I come in and bring the hammer, so to speak.
Nichole [00:20:46] But, you know, it’s just a really safe space and I think it’s a perfect forum for this kind of work. And again and again, we have a Discord server. And I would be very happy to start any kind of groups on there for people who want to commune with each other. The Discord server follows basically the same rules of the Facebook group. The only difference is that I’m a little bit looser with interacting with people. Well I guess actually, I’ve been doing it in both places. So yeah, Callie and I will go in and interact with folks. But, you know, it’s just nice to have the channels where you can go talk about whatever you want to talk about pretty easily. And yeah, we just let people do what they want to do. Unless someone’s being a jerk, which hasn’t actually happened yet. So. We have a book club on there that you can join and we vote on what books to read. So I would be happy to, you know, read a book about Judaism at some point. Actually, we had just suggested a book about Antifa. So I think that’s something I want to read pretty soon, given our current state of affairs in the United States. I think it would be good to learn about fascism and whatnot.
Callie [00:22:01] Oh, that is a good idea I was thinking the next book I would read- I realized I bought it a while ago and then never actually read it.
Callie [00:22:08] Which to be fair is like the story of all of my books laughs.
Nichole [00:22:14] Is it Attached?
Callie [00:22:14] Subject- girl don’t! both laugh.
Nichole [00:22:20] I had to call you out giggles.
Callie [00:22:24] But I realized I bought Listen Liberal because I think I remember where I had actually heard about it may have actually been Jimmy Dore like literally way back forever ago.
Callie [00:22:36] And I’m like now would actually be a really good time to read that because I was interested in it. It’s basically a book of like kind of calling out like liberals and like, hey, this system like doesn’t actually do what you think it does. And this is why we- you know, y’all are not winning. And so anyway, I thought that was a very uneducated approximation of what I think the book is. I will probably be completely wrong because it has been a while since I’ve read the description. But anyway, I’m like, oh, that would be really well timed. But I also have like the People’s History of the United States and I’m like, that feels very important, right? Especially with some interesting tie backs to things in history.
Callie [00:23:21] So, who knows!
Nichole [00:23:21] I know, I really want to read more.
Nichole [00:23:24] But I just can’t seem to do it. I don’t know what it is, but like… Even lately with news and stuff, I just I have trouble kind of reading. And then even lately, I’ve had a bit of trouble even watching stuff because I was watching, you know, news like all the time. And I think I’m just a little burnt right out now.
Nichole [00:23:49] Well, yeah, I hate it. I used to read two or three books at a time. I’d read like at least a book a week. And now I’m like, if I finish a book in two months, I’m lucky. And I keep waiting for my brain to click back on and me to be like, yeah, book time! But it hasn’t happened yet. Yes. The next book we’re reading in the book club is Feminism for the 99%: A Manifesto, and it looks pretty fucking cool and it’s very short as you can see.
Callie [00:24:18] Oh it is! A nice little read!
Nichole [00:24:19] I’ll be able to read it and like we’re doing the book club discussion in two weeks, so I’ll be able to be like I read a whole book in like a week, even though it’s very small.
Callie [00:24:31] Nice.
Nichole [00:24:32] Yeah. So anyway, yes, learning, growing, connecting.
Nichole [00:24:35] That’s what it’s all about. And I just do think I just want to reiterate, I think it’s a very, very important for all of us of any kind of marginalized or minoritized identity to be able to connect with those identities and with other people on things other than oppression. That’s part of the lived experience. I’m not saying it should be not talked about or eradicated. And a lot of that bonding does need to happen over “oh, someone understands my lived experience,” but I just think exploring an identity based off of the oppression that identity has suffered is, you know, kind of just a way to reinforce like white supremacy. You know, it’s allowing white supremacy to come in and erase, the beautiful parts of your culture, which is what white supremacy literally does. Yeah, it literally does things intentionally to erase other people’s heritage and culture. So I think it’s just super important, too. You know, if you start exploring, exploring this identity and it’s just really fucking joyful and beautiful to you for a while, like that’s great and beautiful and wonderful.
Callie [00:25:42] And totally valid.
Nichole [00:25:43] And ok.
Nichole [00:25:44] in unison Yeah.
Nichole [00:25:47] So!
Nichole [00:25:49] Oh, my God. I didn’t prepare a joke.
Callie [00:25:51] What!?
Nichole [00:25:52] I know. Well I, I had such a tired morning.
Callie [00:25:57] Well, while you were looking for one. Then how about I read the Patreon supporters, thank our new donors do that?
Nichole [00:26:06] Oh, yeah, I have a joke in the inbox. That’s right. Actually did do my job.
Callie [00:26:10] Oh, perfect. Then read. Then read that first.
Nichole [00:26:13] OK. So this joke is from Amanda. And if you want to send me jokes, send them to email@example.com and I will only get them. Amanda, thank you for this joke. So what are the only jokes appropriate during a quarantine?
Callie [00:26:35] I don’t know.
Nichole [00:26:37] Inside jokes.
Nichole [00:26:39] Ayyyy! That has levels because we constantly tell inside jokes that no one else gets. Mostly me.
Callie [00:26:47] That’s a- that’s a pretty cute joke.
Nichole [00:26:50] Isn’t it cute?
Callie [00:26:50] It is cute.
Callie [00:26:51] I will admit that.
Nichole [00:26:53] I love it. So thank you, Amanda, for that.
Callie [00:26:56] Yeah.
Callie [00:26:59] So now we’ll think our donors and I just have to do a special little shout out. So I think last week, if you heard the episode and you heard Nichole talk about how we really want to add transcription service, I think that may have been the first time we’ve actually done like a call out like we’ve mentioned, obviously Patreon and PayPal before lots of times on previous episodes. But I think that may be the first time we’ve actually done it for something specific and y’all just really showed up in an incredible way. I was just floored. Like the episode went out and it was just like email after email of new donors signing up on Patreon and a PayPal donation that we got. And I just were very touched. And the support that you have for us and that you want us to keep going, you want the show to continue the work that we’re doing and that you want to help us like offer this additional additional service.
Callie [00:28:08] I guess I hate. That that sounds so corporate! But you-.
Nichole [00:28:14] in corporate voice Here at Bitchy Shitshow, Inc. laughs.
Callie [00:28:17] But that you wanted to like.
Callie [00:28:19] You heard our call out. And even in times, times like we’re in right now that are so tough. Like, just thank you from the bottom of our hearts. It was it was really uplifting. It was really uplifting to see you all just kind of come out and do this with us. So I’ve got lots of people to think. We got a one time generous donation from a very good friend of the show, Mohera. So thank you so much, friend, for that. And then our new Patreons are communist propaganda.
Nichole [00:28:56] Gasp! Yes! Can we be best friends?
Callie [00:28:56] Love your name.
Callie [00:28:57] Love it.
Callie [00:29:01] And then Simon, Melissa, Bertie, Ben, Nahian and Christina.
Callie [00:29:09] So, my god, y’all thank you so much.
Callie [00:29:13] It’s just the flood of new Pastreons. So if you would like to support us on Patreon you can go to Patreon.com/bitchyshitshow. I was about to say our old one.
Callie [00:29:29] Like you did last week, muscle memory.
Callie [00:29:32] Or you can also send us a one time donation on pay pal by sending. I think you can look us up by our email address: firstname.lastname@example.org. Or is the PayPal button on the website?
Nichole [00:29:46] It’s not on the website yet, but every every episode the show notes for it. There’s a little thing at the bottom that says like all the places you can follow us and it has links to our Patreon and our PayPal. So you just click on go to our website, click on any episode, and then it’ll be there at the bottom. I know. I really. That’s another thing we could fundraise for as I really need to. Well, I either need to make the time to update our website or I need to hire someone to do it for me, which would be preferable because every time I try to work with a WordPress template, I eventually figure it out. But it’s like a fucking nightmare. Yeah, it just it’s like you’ll go to update something and then it doesn’t update the thing that you updated and you have to like go to this whole other place to do it is just.
Nichole [00:30:32] Yeah, it’s such a pain in the ass.
Nichole [00:30:35] And we bought a really cool template and I love it, but I can’t get it to look like the demo version.
Nichole [00:30:43] So it’s like I’m frustrated because I know what it can do, but I can’t seem to get it quite there. So anyway, yeah, that’s the struggle. The the web design struggle is real. But yes, you can find links to all of our good stuff, including our YouTube channel we’re up to I think eighty-six subscribers there, which is pretty good considering we’ve done nothing on it yet.
Nichole [00:31:06] Content coming soon! Um, Callie-
Nichole [00:31:09] Callie and I are going to start livestreaming on YouTube. Hopefully the next week or two we’re just trying to figure out all the tech. Especially having to do it remotely. And I need to figure out why I was getting blocked. I tried doing the livestream and I got cut off for copyright violations immediately and I was like, I’m literally just sitting in my room.
Nichole [00:31:34] Like, what did I do?
Callie [00:31:35] Yeah.
Nichole [00:31:36] Yeah, But yeah.
Nichole [00:31:37] We’re hoping to be able to do a town hall every week where we can just openly chat back and forth with listeners and just chitchat about, you know, the news of the week and do something less formal and more interactive. And then the podcast episodes, which I think would be really cool.
Callie [00:31:53] Yeah.
Callie [00:31:54] Yeah. And we are excited to start, you know, leaning a little bit more into YouTube and having some big discussions amongst ourselves of kind of what we want to do with the new show and this new platform and the fact that the world has been turned on its ear. And we’re just feeling very inspired to get involved and to do what we can. So lots of new stuff that’s gonna be coming out for us. I think. So, yeah.
Nichole [00:32:25] Yeah. And all of your support has been so amazing.
Callie [00:32:28] So, so amazing. Yeah. I can’t even thank you enough. It’s still honest- I don’t think I’ll ever honestly get used to the feeling of people like showing us support like that. You know, it’s just incredible that someone’s like, yeah, I value this work, like, let me help you keep doing it. Just. I don’t think I’ll ever get used to it. And frankly, I hope I don’t. It’s just really beautiful and and touching.
Callie [00:32:55] You know.
Nichole [00:32:57] It is. And it’s so fun to go on this journey of expanding and getting into new mediums with people who are like, excited for you.
Callie [00:33:07] Yeah. Mm hmm.
Nichole [00:33:08] Like, what a beautiful fucking thing, you know?
Callie [00:33:11] Yeah.
Nichole [00:33:12] Vs. VWPA when we were just two… I lost what word I wanted to use laughs
Nichole [00:33:19] Where you I just, you know, two dopes with a phone who are like talking into the void and just being like, oh, I wonder if anyone’s gonna like this. And now, look at us now!
Callie [00:33:31] We have come a long, long way from our days of sitting on my living room floor around my IKEA coffee table. Talking into your phone.
Callie [00:33:42] Yeah, about veganism.
Callie [00:33:43] And I like look at us now.
Nichole [00:33:47] With you being like, do you think we’ll run out of topics?
Callie [00:33:52] Yeah, well.
Nichole [00:33:56] Isn’t it so cute to think about?
Callie [00:33:58] Yeah.
Nichole [00:33:58] Like all the things they’re nervous about.
Nichole [00:34:00] And now you think back on it and you’re like, oh my god.
Callie [00:34:04] Yeah. Yeah. That really was my biggest fear.
Nichole [00:34:10] Yeah, it really was.
Nichole [00:34:11] You were like very concern- you were like the you know, the little nervous tapping fingers together, like, do you think we’ll run out of things to talk about? And I was like, I don’t know.
Callie [00:34:22] Yeah.
Nichole [00:34:23] I was like I don’t think so.
Nichole [00:34:24] But I don’t know.
Callie [00:34:25] Well to be fair, if we had stuck to just veganism, we probably would of. But.
Nichole [00:34:29] Oh girl. Yeah.
Callie [00:34:30] It just we just got, you know, radicalized by the day, just connecting with more activists and their their work and yeah. That just launched in a totally different direction and thank goodness it did cause… Yep.
Nichole [00:34:49] Yeah, yeah. Now we’re like we need more platforms to talk about more of this stuff we wanna talk about. both laugh
Callie [00:34:59] Yeah.
Nichole [00:35:02] So yeah. So just. Yeah. Thanks, everyone, who’s been on this journey and thanks to all the new folks.
Nichole [00:35:08] There’s not as many of you as I was hoping for by this point. But we do know that there’s some people who’ve discovered us just as Bitchy Shitshow. And that’s pretty fucking cool.
Callie [00:35:18] Yeah, it is.
Nichole [00:35:21] So welcome to the community. Pretty good space.
Callie [00:35:24] Yeah.
Nichole [00:35:25] And just last point for any of you who are vegan and want more of a dedicated vegan space. We did keep the VWPA Society up and running. So that’s another Facebook group you can join as well.
Callie [00:35:39] Yeah.
Callie [00:35:41] Yeah, it is still like leftist, though, and like, yeah, radical. So none of this like white vegan bullshit. But.
Nichole [00:35:50] Exactly.
Callie [00:35:51] If you want to, like, talk about specific vegan things, I’d say definitely a very welcoming space for it.
Nichole [00:36:00] Yeah, absolutely.
Callie [00:36:02] All right. So main topic? Kind of?
Nichole [00:36:06] Knives Out.
Nichole [00:36:10] Oh, just before we move on, I want you to say a small thing in the Discord channel we have sorry, in the Discord server, still learning the lingo.
Nichole [00:36:19] We have a channel for discussing the podcast episodes, which is nice because it’s we used to not allow that in our Facebook group just so it didn’t detract from community building. So it’s really nice in Discord that we have like a channel that you can go to now offer that so people can talk to each other about the episodes, but they also can… It’s a space that I check. So if someone wants to like talk to us, you know, that’s also possible. And someone did bring up concerns about last week’s episode and the concept of working with, you know, these- working with and trying to reach these protesters who are trying to open the country back up and concerns about how people like this often, if we were even able to reach them, they probably would be more like apt to go into, say, ecofascism or libertarianism. And just also the danger of the underlying fascist motivations behind protests like these. We had a really good discussion about it. And I just wanted to say that, like, I, you know, I wanted to take more time to think about all of this. One of the biggest hurdles for me right now as an activist and as someone who’s still very much actively learning is there’s so many different perspectives on like what should be done? What was the mistake? Why did certain things happen? How do we do better going forward? And one of the things that I seem to go back and forth on the most is outreach to people we don’t agree with. And so, you know, on one hand, I completely agree with the idea that we have to stop like seeing people as just lost causes or viewing groups as people who are just like dead to us. But, on the other hand, I do completely understand and also agree with -and this seems to come a lot from black folks, indigenous folks, people of color, which is why I like give it even more credence- that they’re like, stop trying to work with a small group of like white pashas and focus on other stuff. So, for instance, this listener brought up, you know, that there’s so much energy and so much dialog that has happened around Trump voters and understanding them and, you know, trying to reach them and get them to vote differently this time. And yet, really probably the biggest reason that Trump won was because 2016 was the first election after the Voter Rights Act was decimated. And we all know that the more restrictions there are on voting, the more voting tends to lean Republican. So, you know, it’s just one of those things where it’s like you’re trying to reach individuals but this is really more of a systemic problem and there might be better effort put into expanding voter access than to trying to like sway Trump voters.
Nichole [00:39:34] And I think it’s all valid. Right. Like, I think it’s all valid stuff to talk about.
Nichole [00:39:41] And so we may revisit this topic of these protesters, especially this week, after seeing them come out with those signs, I don’t know how to pronounce it, but the signs that had the “work is liberty” or “work is freedom.” I read a bunch different interpretations of it, but basically what was outside of Auschwitz written in German on these protest signs, which is like deeply fucking disturbing on many levels. You know, it’s something that like I wish I maybe had taken a little more time to think about before commenting on. But, you know, it’s hard. I think, like I do think it’s valid to really think about why is Trump in office? What things got him there? I think that that’s work that we should do. And I mean, really, the answer is neoliberalism. Right.
Callie [00:40:37] laughing Yeah. Yes girl.
Nichole [00:40:39] So but I do think it’s also valid to say like, hey, maybe stop spending so much time on this like small group of, you know, people who are actively trying to do harm to other people and maybe focus more on things like neoliberalism and systemic stuff.
Nichole [00:41:00] And how do we fight back against that, either within or without that system.
Nichole [00:41:08] And then that’s when we can get into more discussions about, you know, do we try to reform our electoral process or do we throw it out the window and say, like, elections are in and of themselves inherently oppressive in the whole system we have is inherently oppressive and blah, blah, blah. So, yeah, I just wanted to bring all that up and just say that, like, I’m really glad that I had this conversation with that listener. I had been feeling a little unsure about that segment, especially after listening back while doing the cleaning up the transcription.
Nichole [00:41:41] And. And it just the conversation really helped me put a bit more structure to maybe some of the uncertainty I was having about it. And and just to say that, again, there’s just so much out there. And I do think, especially as like white folks, you’re just hearing so many different fucking perspectives about like how to interpret political events at all times that it’s really easy to kind of get lost in what you should think, how you should approach stuff like, do- you know, do we try to reach out to these kind of people or do we just say, fuck them? Or like, how do we even what do we do with this?
Nichole [00:42:23] So, yeah, all the say, it’s very confusing.
Callie [00:42:28] Hash tag its complicated.
Nichole [00:42:30] Yeah, exactly.
Nichole [00:42:31] Yeah, but but I’m glad to have these conversations and it’s why I’m actively seeking out like nonwhite literature about activism, socialism, leftist, you know, resistance, stuff like that, because I just think like it’s really important to get different perspectives on this because you can it’s pretty easy to fall into kind of an echo chamber, especially online, and get stuck in like one certain way of looking at things.
Callie [00:42:58] Mm hmm.
Nichole [00:42:59] So thanks.
Nichole [00:43:00] Thanks, listener. Yeah.
Callie [00:43:03] Yeah. And Nichole and I talked a little bit before this episode and we’ll probably be revisiting this topic. Probably specifically, but then obviously it’s always just kind of this thing that we’re talking about. And I mean, this is the whole kind of crux of activism, right? It’s like how do you how do you go about reaching people? What people do you even try to reach? And that sort of thing. And yeah, as more information comes out about these protesters. It’s yeah, it’s all just a lot. And, you know, I’ll just save for my part, like if I said anything that like crossed a line or minimize the pain that people feel. Then I like sincerely apologize. It was obviously not not my intention to do it all.
Callie [00:43:55] So. So, yeah, it’s always nice to hear from people. All right.
Nichole [00:44:01] All right!.
Nichole [00:44:03] Twinsies!
Callie [00:44:06] Main topic.
Nichole [00:44:07] Main topic.
Callie [00:44:08] Which is funny because it’ll probably be the shortest. But, you know, we love to keep mixing things up. Sometimes our episodes are like four hours and sometimes they’re are main segments, 10 minutes. Who knows!?
Nichole [00:44:24] Yeah. We’re wild and free, ok?
Callie [00:44:26] Yeah.
Nichole [00:44:27] We won’t be restrained-
Callie [00:44:29] We don’t confrom.
Nichole [00:44:30] Even to our own agenda! OK?
Nichole [00:44:35] That’s internalized oppression and we won’t do it. Callie laughing
Callie [00:44:42] Yes. There is order in anarchy. What can I say?
Nichole [00:44:48] There is! THANK YOU. Don’t even get me started on that.
Callie [00:44:54] Yeah.
Nichole [00:44:56] Yeah.
Nichole [00:44:57] We just read a book about socialism and the guy was like pretty condescending about anarchy. And I was so irritated. And definitely like multiple times in the book used the word anarchy to mean like chaos. And I was so fucking irritated. But anyway.
Callie [00:45:16] Oh, I’ll just one little nugget. I’ll keep it short because, you know, we want to move on. But since you mentioned socialism and anarchy and stuff, I just watched -because for us this is Sunday so it’s a brand new episode- But I just watched the newest Thought Slime video and he talked about Labor Day and gave a cool little history on Labor Day and how P.S., it’s not in September. It’s actually May 1st! And talked about like Haymarket and the persecution of socialists and anarchists in particular with the labor movement and labor strikes. And honestly, I’m embarrassed to say even in that short little video -although his are always so like well-produced and informative, I am kind of an of how much information he can get a short amount of time.
Nichole [00:46:16] And so entertainingly as well. Entertain. Yeah, I know. He’s one I’m like trying to learn from.
Nichole [00:46:23] Yeah. As I’m getting ready to start making videos myself and I’m just like how does he do it?!
Callie [00:46:28] Yeah. For sure. Because yeah, it’s a different platform. So what people are looking for and how their content is, you know, laid out is very different.
Callie [00:46:37] But yeah, I’m embarrassed to say like there were just things like I had literally no idea on. And that’s kind of sad as someone who like claims she’s an anarchist, which I am, but still like I do, I do need to do more research about our history. But anyway, if you are a little bit unaware or you’re just looking for a great entertaining and informative video, I definitely recommend checking out Thought Slime’s newest video on Labor Day because it was pure fire and definitely things that we should all know. I think what really got across to me the most is like I think there’s a lot of resilience in historical actions that have been taken. And that’s something I think that we need to learn from. I think that because now the way we have access to as much information as we do and how quickly we have everything at our fingertips, like we tend to think that if we try something and it doesn’t work, then we just kind of go into this, -myself included. I’m not calling anyone out- this like tailspin of like, oh, no, like Bernie didn’t win. Like, what’s the future of the progressive movement? And then you hear about things in there like, wow, this was like a fucking failure until like years later when it had, you know, like planted the seeds that were then. And we don’t always have, obviously, the foresight of knowing what’s going to work. But it just always. I love hearing stories like that, because it just really reminds me, like what a rich history there is in, you know, socialists and anarchists and labor movements and how there is a lot of it’s like it’s okay if things don’t always work out the first time. It’s all part of like building and getting somewhere. So but yeah, great, great little video, especially with, you know, mayday and all the strikes that happen.
Callie [00:48:33] It’s just good to get to hear some of our history.
Nichole [00:48:38] Yeah, it’s really good to hear. And speaking of Haymarket, I also was not aware of any of that history and realized that that’s what Haymarket Books is all about.
Nichole [00:48:49] And I was like, that’s fucking cool.
Callie [00:48:51] Yeah.
Nichole [00:48:53] They’ve been amazing. Them in Verso Books have been giving away a lot of free, you know, kind of radicalizing literature, books and whatnot during the quarantine, which has been really cool and having a lot of really massive sales on books. So I highly recommend you check them out any way. I know right now they’re having, I think, 50 percent off the entire site, which is incredible.
Nichole [00:49:19] But also additionally, I found out that they have live events that they host and they’re doing them now to, you know, help resistance continue during- ugh I hate using the word resistance now it’s another thing the libs of fucking ruined, including the word progressive, progressive doesn’t even mean anything anymore.
Callie [00:49:39] We have to stop letting them steal our labels and then make them meaningless, though.
Nichole [00:49:44] That’s the biggest reason that I’m like just say you’re a fucking communist or anarchist or socialist because those are the only words that they won’t coopt.
Callie [00:49:54] Well.
Nichole [00:49:55] For now at least.
Nichole [00:49:59] It’s so fucking irritating. But anyway, I like this will probably be too late notice since this is coming out on Tuesday.
Nichole [00:50:06] But the first one is that I sign up for his May 5th and it’s Kimberle Crenshaw talking about intersectionality. Sounds like dope. There’s three other ones for the month of May and they all seem incredible. I forget off the top of my head what they are, but I signed up for one of them’s about sports and I’m like eh. So I didn’t sign up for that one. But the other two sound amazing and the events are free with like donation requested if you’re able to afford it. So it’s accessible for anyone. And please just, you know, pay as much as you can to help them and help cover somebody who can’t afford it.
Nichole [00:50:47] But yeah, there’s just so much amazing education and connection happening during this time, which I think is really incredible. And just yeah, after watching the Thought Slime video, I’m like, oh, this is even more cool than I already knew that it was.
Callie [00:51:01] Yeah. Yeah, that’s awesome.
Nichole [00:51:04] Yeah. The more, you know, you know?
Callie [00:51:07] Little PBS logo flies across our screen.
Nichole [00:51:12] So Knives Out. It was good.
Nichole [00:51:19] The end. Callie laughing
Nichole [00:51:22] We were going to watch Bombshell because we felt like that would be more to talk about.
Nichole [00:51:26] But I was like I really just don’t have it in me to watch like a white conservative women dealing with stuff right now. Yeah. Especially given like the Tara Reade situation and how fucking lake triggering an awful it is to watch this unfold online. So we decided to watch Knives Out instead. And it was good. I just don’t know that I have a lot to say about it.
Callie [00:51:51] Yeah, I mean it was definitely entertaining- very entertaining.
Callie [00:51:59] Rian Johnson again. Kilt it. I don’t know anyone like.
Callie [00:52:05] Well, obviously, if you listen to us on VWPA, you know how we feel about the whole recent Star Wars trilogy. And that is a subject we can not afford to retread right now.
Callie [00:52:19] Time-wise or emotionally or anything.
Nichole [00:52:22] Yeah.
Callie [00:52:24] But I just it was just really interesting. Like I just think the movie was so well done and the shots were just brilliant and beautiful. Like I’m just the artistry in his work always blows me away. I mean, The Last Jedi, I was like, fucking stunning, you know, visually. And. And then so was knives out. It was just really incredible. But like, so different. Like it. The the. Obviously, it’d be different than Star Wars. But like the tone and the colors, there was almost this like kind of old school like comedy vibe. But like, not really, you know? Like, it almost seems silly. But it wasn’t. It didn’t like really ever go there directly. But yeah, I was I was very impressed. And then obviously there were some good, good moments in it where I think it really pointed out, like the grossness of rich perverts and just how much they… Even when they think they’re being good people are doing the right thing like they’re being so fucking entitled and.
Nichole [00:53:35] YES.
Callie [00:53:37] Yeah. I.
Callie [00:53:39] I don’t think since we’re not going to talk about this very long, we need to really give any spoilers, so just definitely recommend you watch it. But just the way that they treat their staff in the movie, and and they like they even say some things and I’m like, wow, I’m kind of surprised that they even put that in because it’s almost like shocking some of like the grotesque language that they use and the conversations that they’re having either about their staff or with their staff. But then I was kind of happy to see like it’s almost refreshing that they didn’t hold back and they said things that it’s like, well, that’s a thing that you would probably hear in real life, especially with a family like this, let alone someone who just seems to be like conservative or right wing. So I was I was glad they didn’t really pull any punches and didn’t let these people off the hook with their fucking rich pervert ass behavior.
Nichole [00:54:40] Yeah, I definitely appreciated that it tapped into this- you know, explore wealth in this sense that we talk about it a lot. In that people who are born into wealth and the attitudes they have around it and not understanding how wealth actually works, you know, so feeling, for instance, entitled to inherited wealth and feeling that this birthright somehow makes them have earned that money.
Nichole [00:55:15] But then also being fine with other people, you know, making minimum wage or less and struggling and not seeing the the irony there that it’s like you didn’t actually work for that, but you just feel entitled to it.
Nichole [00:55:31] And, you know, at one point a character brings up like their “ancestral inheritance.”
Nichole [00:55:37] And I thought it was kind of I don’t know if people would pick up on it or not, like regular white people. But I just think the way it was handled was pretty great to point out like this, this white imperialist attitude towards their “ancestry” and their “inheritance.”
Nichole [00:55:58] And you know what they’re owed while they’re like literally standing on land that was stolen from other people and wealth that is being actively stolen from other people. And especially saying that too, like a person of color or an immigrant.
Nichole [00:56:14] It just yeah, I just thought that was handled pretty well. I wasn’t quite sure how I felt about- and again, this won’t be any spoilers, but I wasn’t sure how I felt about the Marta character because she.
Nichole [00:56:32] You know, I don’t want to give anything away, but I don’t know- just how she was handled throughout.
Nichole [00:56:39] I think a lot of the lines in the movie were made to… Show stereotypes about immigrant workers. Right. Like “she’s such a hard worker.” That was said many times by these elitist, you know, white people. And but I think the way her character acted was almost kind of like another stereotype, almost like the ideal immigrant. Right. So, so I wasn’t quite sure how I felt about how she was handled kind of in that respect. But I did really appreciate the way that these ideas of wealth and inheritance and entitlement were handled. And there are just so many subtle things. Like at one point, one of the the wealthy family members asked her to come over and weigh-in on a very gross and upsetting argument they were having about immigration. And as he’s like she, by the way, is the the patriarch’s like caretaker like she’s like I don’t know if she was a nurse, but she’s, you know, his medical aid. And this guy is like forcing her to weigh-in on this immigration issue -she’s an immigrant from Brazil- and at the same time is handing her his dirty plate.
Nichole [00:58:04] And I just was like. And it’s not like mentioned and if you’re not, like, actively paying attention, you could miss it. And it was like, that was such a beautiful, subtle thing.
Nichole [00:58:15] So I thought that was handled like- I just thought there was so many subtle, accurate digs at entitled elitist people.
Callie [00:58:26] Yeah.
Nichole [00:58:27] That I really appreciated. But it wasn’t necessarily a deep movie like a no. Yeah. It was like, you know, Intersectionality 101. It was like very basic in what it was presenting. But I just thought what it was presenting was was fairly well done in roasting. You know, privileged white people who like to think that they’re good people. But, you know, we’re actually just a bunch of entitled assholes.
Callie [00:58:55] Yeah. What I what I liked about it, too, was that. And again, without giving anything away, like it kind of runs the gamut of like the people who are very like obviously bad in like just very clear cut ways. Like they’re just their wealth and their privilege and their fucking attitudes and the grotesque, awful things that they say to each other and then to, you know, the staff that work for them. But then it also showed the people who are like the allies or the friends that like know enough and they seem really cool and down. But then like when push comes to shove, even they’re assholes, you know. I just I thought it was it it all just felt very real to me, which is funny because the movie is very surreal-feeling. It’s like all the imagery is so dramatic and shot in this way that. I don’t know, it almost had like a cartoonish quality about it. You know what I mean? And the drama is like very over the top. But but yeah, it just felt like so grounded in reality of like these people that are all kind of cartoonish in their own way. But also it’s like, yeah, this seems like something that would totally happen, like some of these conversations and the way they were talking to each other and the one that you just reference where the you know, they were having this awful debate and they tried to like pull Marta into it. And I’m like, that is totally realistic. Like all of this, the way that’s happening is, like, so real. So to have this, like, kind of beautiful melding of like the real and surreal and and all of that was I just thought it was very entertaining and well done. And and obviously just, you know, kind of a fun, fun watch. So.
Nichole [01:00:50] Yeah, and I just think it shows that we can have these- these like traditional kind of what’s the word I’m looking for? You know, these genres that tend to be very like white and flat and that we can update them without like losing the fun and the campiness of the genre. You know, this was like a classic. Who done it? Kind of goofy, but goofy, but beautiful film. And we, you know, politics are able to be injected into it in a way that just enhance the story and didn’t detract from it.
Nichole [01:01:33] But like also made it.
Nichole [01:01:35] Good.
Nichole [01:01:36] And like saying something. Again, it wasn’t it wasn’t really a political film, I wouldn’t go so far as that, but it just at least had awareness around the topic, which is appreciated. It wasn’t something that just shoved. I mean, it still wasn’t super diverse, but it had a very small cast. And the cast was like the kind of the point was that there are these entitled white people. But, you know, I appreciated that, instead of just being like, oh, let’s cast, you know, a Brazilian person for this role.
Nichole [01:02:06] It’s like this role is written about a Brazilian immigrant and how that would impact her experience in this situation. Yeah. So it’s not like, oh, let’s just take a genre and do cosmetic diversity. It’s like, oh, let’s take a genre and actually injects like the politics of the people that we cast here. Yeah. Which I think is really cool. And yeah, it’s still just like a fun, goofy movie.
Callie [01:02:34] Yeah. I mean this is obviously in part because of the kind of media that I watch, but I’m just really glad to see that more and more kind of mainstream shows and movies are injecting like, some just real life political stuff. You know, they’re just kind of starting to incorporate- I like quote unquote, diversity. But in a way that doesn’t always mean a lot of times it is tokenism. But that is just starting to like incorporate like more stories. And that even if it’s not specifically about that, that at least it’s being like shown, you know what I mean, in a character that you can empathize with. And I think that could be a whole, you know, hours long debate in and of itself, because that’s obviously such a like neoliberal thing. Right. To just kind of like show and pay lip service to this thing. So you get a bunch of these like fake woke liberals that think that they can now claim ally status even while voting for people that are fucking monsters, you know, because they think that they have all this cultural awareness that really doesn’t go beyond the surface level. But it’s like we’re getting there. Right. It’s better than nothing. And I think I’ve just been really glad to see that in more media, there’s like less moments where I’m having to kind of hold my breath and be like, oh, fuck. You know, if there are moments like that, like there were moments last night but I knew that they were coming from like the right place and not like, oh, they don’t know what they’re doing right now. Like, they’re just sharing these cliches, but not in a way of like, look at how bullshit this is. It’s like, look at this thing and it’s like big yikes on that, you know,.
Nichole [01:04:27] Big yikes.
Nichole [01:04:28] Yeah. I’m playing a video game called Octopath Traveler and by Square Enix, which is one of my favorite companies ever just in terms of their games and the gameplay.
Nichole [01:04:40] But there’s so many moments in the game where I’m just like, oh, my god, you know, like stuff will happen.
Nichole [01:04:47] And I’m like, that’s sex worker shaming.
Nichole [01:04:50] And that’s like super pro-capitalist that’s this. That’s a you know, and it’s just like.
Callie [01:04:56] Yeah.
Nichole [01:04:56] So it’s nice to be able again, we’re not seeing knives out as like some SJW, you know, manifesto or something, but it’s just nice to see some self-awarenessi n the media and some intentional handling of the material, there is even like a subtle call out.
Nichole [01:05:19] And again, I don’t want to give anything away, but there is like a subtle call out to, you know, people who claim to be super woke and are maybe like.
Nichole [01:05:31] Would identify themselves as extremely left or liberal or whatever. And yet how, when their own interests are threatened, they will turn around and be just as bad as someone who’s like alt-right. And it wasn’t handled in like in your face necessarily kind of way, but like it was in there. And I just really appreciated it. Because there’s basically calling out like neoliberalism. I don’t know if intentionally, but neoliberalism and just this.
Nichole [01:06:05] Yeah. This like fake wokeness that everyone goes around with nowadays, white people where they’re like, oh yeah, I’m such an ally. But then the second I’m invested in something that’s threatening me, then I’m going to like literally be no different than someone who’s like out outright racist.
Callie [01:06:24] No. And and even worse, like betray that person because it’s like you now have this like sensitive information or you’ve gotten close to the other person because you were, you know, pretended to be a friend or an ally and now you can betray them.
Callie [01:06:40] And in a much more personal way, you know.
Nichole [01:06:44] Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, I just really appreciated all that. But yeah! It was just a fun romp.
Callie [01:06:49] Fun romp! both laughing
Nichole [01:06:56] Yeah. And that’s honestly what I needed.
Callie [01:06:59] Yeah.
Nichole [01:06:59] Last night. So I appreciate it.
Callie [01:07:02] Yeah.
Callie [01:07:03] Yeah. It was nice to take a little break from the politics stuff. It was so funny. Earlier in the week I was like messaging Nichole, like, I have so much to say. There’s so much news coming out. We need to do a thing! And then I just woke up one day and I was like, literally, every thought has like fled my mind and I’m just really tired. And, yeah. So when you suggested doing a fun, fun episode on a media review, I was like, fuck, yes.
Callie [01:07:33] Like I’m all in for that.
Nichole [01:07:34] I think I hit my burnout point this week too. And it just. Yeah, because I remember I messaged you too and I was like, yeah, townhall would be good. Like there’s so much stuff coming out. I’ve so much to say. And then I just like literally woke up the next day and was like I don’t wanna talk about any of it.
Nichole [01:07:52] And it will be nice to get these townhalls going because then we can feel less pressure. You know, we’ll have a space where we can kind of more casually talk about what’s come up and not feel like we have to do, you know, like an episode around it. But, um, I think it’s really important. And we try -me in particular I’m not always good about it- but I want to try to model healthy activism, and part of that is just knowing when you’ve hit the wall and you just need a fuckin break. And I had been actually energized by being politically aware and talking about politics and something in the last week. I just kind of snapped. I think a lot of it’s, you know, being so fucking triggered about all this Biden stuff and also just feeling I’ve been consuming a lot of stuff where I am just realizing how much I don’t know. And that gets me like very overwhelmed because I know I don’t have the mental capacity or the energy to learn all the things I feel like I need to learn to be fully aware about things.
Nichole [01:08:57] And so I just you know, when I start to get to that anxious, overwhelmed, depressed place, I know I just need to take a step back and give myself a little break. And I’m sure in a few weeks I’ll be back to like, you know, wanting to talk about all the things. But I just want to say that because I think a lot of us are probably feeling this way right now, feeling like, you know, we need to be informed. But maybe hitting walls of burnout. I’ve even seen we’ve been tagged in a few posts or people are like, I am just tired of listening to political shit right now. So can anyone recommend like podcasts or stuff that are not dealing with that? And people have been recommending some of our like not political episodes, which thank you very much. We appreciate that.
Nichole [01:09:41] But yeah, like I think a lot of people are feeling just like, okay, I’m- this has been weeks and weeks and weeks, if not months and months like I just can’t right now and that is totally fine. Yeah. Like things are going to keep happening, you know, and it’s gonna be there when you’re get back.
Nichole [01:09:59] And it’s it’s just that’s part of it too. I think that I got burnt out from all of it is just realizing how fast everything’s been moving that every week. It always feels urgent. And we actually had like a bunch of really kind of fun or just very deeply interesting topics to explore. And we’ve just pushed all that aside to do political stuff. And I don’t regret that. I love the work that we’ve done. But, you know, it is one of those things where it’s like taking over our lives, taking over our creativity, and and you can’t even keep up with it.
Nichole [01:10:29] And I mean, we really would need to have at one point I was like really upset we didn’t have like a daily show because I’m like, shit is happening daily. And I was like, should I start doing Instagram stories? Like, how do how do we handle with all this information? And it’s like, you know what?
Nichole [01:10:46] Like, I- you know, I need to sleep and I need to watch some, like, entertaining stuff. And I need to like also make space to do creative work that isn’t politically- well, it’s all politically based, really, but like not dealing with current politics kind of thing. Otherwise, I’m just burnt out.
Nichole [01:11:06] And I’m not I’m not paying honor to all the different aspects of myself and my creativity. Yeah. You know, I like talking about politics because I think we have we have things to say about it.
Nichole [01:11:20] And I like that we’re learning. And so we can like the audience can learn with us. But at the same time, like I think what we really bring to the table is kind of the stuff where we look at common everyday behaviors and then kind of like decolonize them. I think that that’s the interesting valuable work that we do. And to just be so far from it right now, I think it’s good to just stop and be like, you know what, I I want to get back to that or I want to make more space for that and just give myself permission to not be so aggressively engaged all the time and be able to take breaks. And I’m learning that I function and just a very cyclical kind of way. So I tend to be really on shit and productive for like a few days. And then I’m like laying in bed and playing video games for a few days. And, you know, I’ve been working with like a therapist and a naturopath who are like, you know, yeah, you may be able to find a routine and that might work for you, but you may just be a cyclical kind of person. Like you may just be a person who’s on for a few days and off for a few days and that’s okay, too. So even and sorry, I know I’m kind of going off, but I just think a lot of people, given that we’re in such a wildly different circumstance, are probably having these feelings like we’re not allowed to figure out how our bodies actually work or how our brains actually work or how our energy levels actually work. And there’s we’re sold this prescriptive one size fits all, you know, concept of being like a good citizen. And a good citizen like wakes up early and works out every day and like does the same amount of work every day.
Nichole [01:13:05] And like, I think a lot of us maybe don’t work like that, especially creative types. I think creative types like we are very cyclical. We are very up and down. We’re full of passion. And then we burn ourselves out and we need to recharge and like being an introvert, too, that adds to that.
Nichole [01:13:22] So I just think, like for those of us privileged enough to be, you know, working from home or not working, but like financially okay. You know, just taking the time to honor and pay attention to how your body works or what your body needs at any given time, I think is really important.
Callie [01:13:45] Yes.
Nichole [01:13:45] And I want to I want to model that like it helps me. To be able to get over that feeling of like being lazy or being a loser by not doing stuff, when I think about being able to model it for other people and how much like if someone, if someone outside of myself was telling me they were feeling this way, I would like absolutely with compassion and be like then just stop, you know, take a break. So I’m trying to do that for myself, too.
Callie [01:14:14] Yeah, I.
Callie [01:14:17] I couldn’t have said any of that better myself. I’ve definitely been having a lot of like epiphanies about myself in the way I work and just what I need, you know.
Nichole [01:14:28] Yeah.
Callie [01:14:29] And yeah, I just never feel like I’m living up to what I’m supposed to be able to do. And that just gives me so much guilt and anxiety all the time.
Callie [01:14:40] And at some point, like we all just need to kind of make peace with ourselves, you know. And I don’t know that that process will ever be like complete. But yeah, I I’ll just end with um- end myself, I won’t cut you off- but I read this post and I’ll try to find it so we can actually, like give credit and stuff in the show notes. But there’s this one Facebook account I’ve been following that she’s just been sharing really important words, especially during this whole pandemic in crisis and stuff. But they tend to be like, you know, all about body liberation and all kinds of stuff like that.
Callie [01:15:21] And they the account posted something like, you’re not working from home, you’re working at home during a crisis. Like there’s a difference. And we’re all like going through a lot right now, like emotionally, physically. So, yeah, like if you’re so don’t hold yourself to the standards of like the precrisis productivity levels like precrisis doesn’t exist. We don’t live in that world anymore. At least for now, but probably not ever, you know. Again.
Nichole [01:15:56] Yeah.
Callie [01:15:56] So yeah, I just. Yeah.
Callie [01:15:59] We all need to like really, really be empathetic with ourselves and others.
Nichole [01:16:07] Yeah, I agree. And that’s I think part of what occurred to me in the last two weeks is just how much I’m taking in. And needing space to process that sometimes by sleeping. You know, I read enough quotes are tweets about Biden and it’s like I’m tired.
Nichole [01:16:29] Yeah, I feel like I’ve been assaulted emotionally. I’m tired. And I just need to, like, sleep or play a video game or whatever. And that’s okay.
Nichole [01:16:39] And just to like, yeah, honor the fact that we’re all dealing with a lot right now. Even those of us- and I’m extremely privileged right now. I cannot believe the situation I’m in compared to like if this had happened 10 years ago. I don’t know what the fuck I would have done. This this literally. Like. Yeah, I think about it a lot and it scares me and it scares me for other people.
Nichole [01:17:05] But, you know, even me being in probably the most privileged position I could be in where I like, I don’t really need to work right now. I’m at home. I’m in a great location.
Nichole [01:17:15] I can get groceries delivered, you know? I have a outside like backyard where I can go sit to get ‘scuse me, to get some sun. I’m just I’m very safe right now. And I’m exhausted, processing all of this and other stuff, you know, I’m working out decades worth of shit, but that’s a lot of people.
Nichole [01:17:40] And that’s kind of the point is. Yeah, exactly. We’re all going through a lot of shit right now and it’s okay to just be tired.
Nichole [01:17:49] Like it’s it’s okay to just be like, I just want to do something fun right now or I just want to stare at a wall right now like that’s actually very, very normal. And yeah. And it’s really hard to not absorb those messages of, you know, we need to be doing shit all the time. Like even. I’ve gotten I’ve healed enough that I can exercise even though I still have to, like, keep it pretty short, not too intense.
Nichole [01:18:20] And so, you know, I’ve been setting this goal like exercising every single day. And it’s like I realize like I just can’t. A lot of times I exercise one day and the next day I’m very tired. And then I feel like a piece of shit because I’m like, well, I’m supposed to be, you know- and I’ve just had to learn to just be like, you’re just fucking tired today. That’s fine.
Nichole [01:18:40] Sleep. And Like.
Nichole [01:18:43] Just pay attention to what you need. Like, why does this have to be such a fucking thing?
Nichole [01:18:48] Oh, I’m so, so part of like my learning is that like I tend now to have days where I might be more quote unquote productive towards like say doing work for the show. And then other days I might be more quote unquote productive towards like self-care or cleaning my house.
Nichole [01:19:06] But like, I still don’t have fuel in the tank to do at all. And that, like, I might feel fine the day I’m doing it, but I might be wiped out the next day. And to just be okay with that and to not make so many fucking plans where I feel like a failure before I’ve even gotten out of bed because I know that I can’t achieve the plans I made for myself before I even knew like how I was feeling that day. So I really started to like take it more day by day. And that’s helped a lot.
Nichole [01:19:38] But it’s it’s a huge process. And I’ll stop talking with my naturopath said something to me that I thought was really beautiful. She talked about how she felt like for the last five years that she had been like working and working and doing a lot, but not really building anything or getting anywhere. And she’s like, so I just- she’s like even in the last few months, like, I just had to stop in and really evaluate that. And she said, I realized like, she got talking about cocooning and she kept talking about coming out of a place of essentially like building a foundation for yourself where whatever productivity is coming out of you it’s actually building towards something. So you’re not just being busy for the sake of being busy, right? Like your finding that like sovereignty. She kept calling it like sovereignty so that your actions are extending out of that place of stillness, basically. She’s a little woo, but I like her. And it really, this might sound like we’re like when she first told me, I was like, OK, kind of like that. But the more I thought about it, like it really did help because what happens when we’re working and what happens when we’re in normal life? Right? Like we’re just going and a lot of our sense of accomplishment is set externally. Like we have tasks for a job that are given to us that we have to do. And so finding a way to stop and build some kind of foundation- like for her, she really she needed to come in. So she moved her practice out of her house instead of a separate office. And she’s like that really like made a huge difference for me. And I’ve just found recently that like like I haven’t taken care of my home because I haven’t been able to. And then we jumped into the new show and my house is still like a mess. It’s cluttered. It has too much shit. I can’t set up a studio for YouTube videos the way I want to because there’s too much stuff here. It’s not clean the way I wanted to be.
Nichole [01:21:47] So like, I think that’s my cocoon, you know, like instead of putting so much energy into the show right now or like our website isn’t finished, like I haven’t been in. Yeah, exactly. It’s like whatever, but I haven’t been building the foundations.
Nichole [01:22:00] So even when I’m doing a lot, that anxiety of those foundations not being set is like making me constantly- like I messaged my friend the other day and it was like, okay, I gave her a list of all the stuff I had done that day. And I was like, I literally feel like I’ve done nothing, but I’ve done this like massive list of stuff. But I think that’s why because I wasn’t able to get to that like foundational shit to to feel like I can see the improvements around me or I always just feel more comfortable in my own space. And so that anxiety is always there. So anyway, that might aboard the ship out of some of you. And I apologize, but I think for some of you that might have like really hit home for you and it just has helped me a lot. And this is the kind of work that we’re not allowed to do in a capitalist economy in normal times.
Nichole [01:22:50] And I feel just so deeply pained about people who are not allowed to do it now because they’re out there being put at risk and being underpaid so that we can all eat and have stuff. But yeah, hopefully that that made sense to some of you and that helps.
Nichole [01:23:08] But just this idea of cocooning and coming out of place, a place of sovereign’s individual sovereignty, you think was like really powerful for me to understand why I was feeling so fucking anxious every day and just not able to feel like, okay, with like whatever my day was, you know, I was just going to bed every night feeling that awful gnawing feeling in my stomach and it sucked.
Callie [01:23:34] Yeah, I’m glad you shared all that.
Nichole [01:23:39] So. We don’t know what the fuck we’re talking about next week, but we’ll be here.
Callie [01:23:44] We will.
Nichole [01:23:44] And you’ll be here,.
Callie [01:23:46] Hopefully!
Nichole [01:23:47] Hopefully.
Nichole [01:23:49] And we will see you then. Everyone take care of yourselves.
Callie [01:23:52] Bye bye.
Nichole [01:23:53] Bye.