014 Capitalism, COVID, Cops. All The Things.

Poppin Off

There’s so much shitty news this week, it’s hard to even know what to focus on, so we didn’t. We do a loose rant about everything from Ahmaud Arbery’s murder to meat-packing plant workers being forced to work in dangerous conditions.

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What is a procrastinator’s favorite thing to do?

The American Idiot & Freedom

Content warning for explained and intentional use of the word “idiot” in relation to the article linked below.

Inspired by the article linked below, we talk about the concept of freedom in the United States, particularly the idea of freedom from vs freedom to; as well as the the original Greek definition of “idiot” and how it relates to the current political climate.

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Nichole [00:00:27] Hey, everyone. I’m Nichole.

Callie [00:00:28] And I’m Callie.

Nichole [00:00:29] And today we’ll be talking about.

Callie [00:00:31] Freedom.

Nichole [00:00:33] No!

Nichole [00:00:34] Today we will be bitching about God damn it!

Nichole [00:00:38] I did the transcript for last week and I was like, fuck!

Callie [00:00:43] That makes it even funnier since we’re going to be bitching about freedom because people are going to be like, what?

Nichole [00:00:50] We are going to be bitching about freedom though.

Callie [00:00:52] Yeah, that’s true.

Nichole [00:00:54] Or at least the way that we perceive freedom in this fucked up late stage capitalism fucking post apocalyptic nightmare of a country that we’re living in.

Callie [00:01:05] Hellscape. Yeah, yeah. I love the word hellscape. I find myself using it a lot recently. I wonder why that is.

Nichole [00:01:12] I wonder why.Hmm. Must be unrelated, just coinkydink.

Callie [00:01:23] Yeah. Total coinkydink.

Nichole [00:01:29] I was watching Jimmy Dore this week and he said coinkydink in this like incredibly pissed off voice and I just like died laughing like if that doesn’t sum up just everything right now.

Nichole [00:01:45] He was like, “What a coinkydink!” What a fucking coinkydink.

Callie [00:01:51] I love how mad he gets. Just the rage.

Nichole [00:01:52] I’m finding I can’t watch anyone who is an angry right now.

Callie [00:01:56] Same. Yeah.

Nichole [00:01:58] So I’ve just been watching Jimmy Dore and listening to the Benjamin Dixon Show and that’s like… And, ah Convo Couch. And those are my three where people get like fuckin pissed.

Nichole [00:02:12] And I’m like, yes. Do it.

Callie [00:02:18] Yeah.

Nichole [00:02:18] Actually, it was it was a perfect combination because Jimmy Dore had Fiorella Isabel.

Nichole [00:02:25] I think that’s her name on from Convo Couch on his show to talk about… And we should probably talk about how basically just like how corrupt and awful Bernie’s campaign was and the people in it. And like all the shit that they’ve done. And so one of the things that he had her on to talk about was that their campaign when I guess last time, if you wanted to apply to be a delegate, then you would just like apply.

Nichole [00:02:58] And this time they like screened people out for anyone who is too radical. So like all the grass roots, like very leftist people, they actually scoured three years worth of their social media accounts. And if they had anything like never Biden or Bernie or Bust or anything like that, like. They were not allowed to apply or got kicked out.

Callie [00:03:23] Bernie just continues to rip my fucking heart out.

Callie [00:03:28] Like.

Nichole [00:03:29] Yeah.

Callie [00:03:30] You know, and just make me so mad.

Nichole [00:03:34] Yeah. No, there’s no heroes.

Callie [00:03:36] No. No, there really aren’t.

Nichole [00:03:38] Like in politicians. The only people that I will even consider supporting now are the people that the progressives are not backing who are progressive, because that’s only way to know that they’re actually like really progressive.

Callie [00:03:56] Yeah. And outsiders.

Nichole [00:03:59] Yeah. Like Shahid Buttar. Like AOC and Bernie aren’t supporting him. I forget who else. They’re not endorsing him.

Callie [00:04:08] Are you?!… What?! The…

Nichole [00:04:13] So I’m like well, I’ll make a donation to his campaign. He must be doing something right.

Callie [00:04:19] I did not know that.

Nichole [00:04:21] Yeah, no, he’s like by himself.

Callie [00:04:24] That just like fucked up my entire day, like.

Nichole [00:04:30] Yep.

Callie [00:04:31] How Nancy Pelosi is. So terrible for the Democrats that for them to not.

Callie [00:04:40] Wow.

Nichole [00:04:42] Yeah.

Callie [00:04:43] Wow.

Nichole [00:04:44] Yeah, yep.

Nichole [00:04:45] And then I found out in that coinkydink episode that Ilhan Omar.

Nichole [00:04:55] Basically, suppose she signed off on something that was supporting, sanctioning.

Nichole [00:05:01] Iran. The continued sanctions.

Nichole [00:05:07] And then AOC posted.

Nichole [00:05:11] Something essentially like she didn’t refer to that directly, but she posted something basically like referencing that Ilhan, you know, knows what it’s like to grow up in a war torn country and like is grateful for all the Democrat, like all the democracy and all the stuff that they both have fought for together. And Jimmy Dore like this is clearly her, like trying to cover Omar’s ass for when this like comes out and I’m just like, this is all trash.

Nichole [00:05:44] Like, you’re all trash. You’re all fake. I can’t believe I was taken in by this. Yeah, and I’m fucking done. Yeah, I’m fucking done. Like I’m not working within the system. So you all can go ahead and be as fake as you want to be.

Callie [00:06:03] My God.

Nichole [00:06:05] Yeah, so, yeah.

Nichole [00:06:07] It was a really tough week.

Nichole [00:06:10] Been hashtag triggered pretty bad over like all of the Tara Reade stuff. Now that she’s getting a little bit more traction. Good for her. You know, like finally did her first kind of bigger, slightly more mainstream media interview with.

Nichole [00:06:26] What’s her fucking name?

Callie [00:06:27] Megan Kelly.

Nichole [00:06:28] Megan…Megan Kelly. Yes. It’s like a name I kind of know, but I don’t really know her. I just know she sucks.

Nichole [00:06:37] But.

Nichole [00:06:39] Yeah, just just you know, you can only see so many comments online before you’re like.

Nichole [00:06:47] Basically need to curl up into a ball and just not be able to function for a while and I definitely hit that this week.

Nichole [00:06:56] And then of course, there was the video released about Ahmaud Arbery.

Nichole [00:07:04] Who was gunned down… I mean, like fucking straight up, premeditated, murdered by two white assholes, one a former cop.

Nichole [00:07:16] That actually happened in February, but they had gotten away with it. Basically, the guy who was the former cop, I guess, was also an investigator for the D.A. and had claimed that Arbery was a suspected robber. As if that makes any difference.

Nichole [00:07:40] But of course, it’s also just a complete fucking racist lie. It’s just a lie. And they actually had told his mother that that he was essentially like apprehended while committing a crime, committing a crime. And that’s why he was murdered. And of course, that’s not true.

Nichole [00:07:59] He was just a guy who is out for a run and now. They had gotten away with it. And then someone leaked a video of the entire incident where you can see him being murdered. And so now, you know, these two people have been arrested. But like, who knows what’s going to happen? And um. There was someone else to Sean, Sean Reed, I believe, was also just fucking murdered by the Indiana police.

Nichole [00:08:36] So I just don’t know what to do. I don’t know what to do. I don’t know. You know, and it’s it’s really hard because.

Nichole [00:08:51] These video I I shouldn’t say it’s hard like for me, but it’s just these videos come out and then, you know, I watch a Ti Talk about it on a from nappyheadedjojoba by which sorry, I’m saying that, you know, I’m white, but that’s her channel name. She did as Ti Talk about it.

Nichole [00:09:14] And and just was saying, you know, like you see this stuff come out. She’s a black woman and you see this stuff come out and then you just know that you’re gonna see that hashtag justice for whoever trending from all these people and then nothing’s going to change.

Nichole [00:09:32] And it’s just so much, you know, performative allyship happening. And it’s so true. And I’ve been trying to do a lot of very.

Nichole [00:09:45] Direct and aggressive like anticapitalist work online lately.

Nichole [00:09:50] And just seeing how invested people are in capitalism and then seeing those same people who will post like hashtag justice for Ahmaud or for whoever. And it’s like, how do you not fucking know that no one is ever gonna have justice as long as you believe in capitalism and you believe in incarceration and you believe that police have the right to kill people under any circumstances, that police should even exist, that police should have guns.

Nichole [00:10:20] You know, it’s just so fucking. Irresponsible and lazy. And if you’re an actual fucking ally, whatever that means, then you absolutely should have by now done the work to be like, where the fuck is this actually coming from?

Nichole [00:10:39] Because it’s not a one off, it’s not one bad cop, it’s not one bad apple. It’s not a misunderstanding like and we know it’s systemic racism. But like, where is it coming from? How do we actually fix this? And we can not fix this system as long as we have citizens that we view as either a profit or a threat to property.

Nichole [00:11:03] That is it.

Nichole [00:11:05] It is not coincidental that so many of these black people, children get murdered, and then the excuse that their murderer gets away with is that they thought that they were stealing something. It’s not just the racial stereotype that is there. But but it’s built on a foundation of property is God, right?

Nichole [00:11:29] And who has property? Who has wealth in this country? White people. And what do they fear more than anything? Why did the police actually exist? To protect property, to enforce state laws around who can own what and who has access to what? It’s why we criminalize poverty. And it’s why when I was fucking groped on a bus and there is videotape, nothing happened. But then when my apartment was broken into. They found every fucking videotape in like the fucking area found that guy cracked the case. Right. Why? Because that person came in and took my property versus someone just assaulting my body. So if you’re not anti-capitalist, you’re not doing it right. Don’t call yourself an ally. Don’t call yourself an accomplice. And if you’re out here and you want to do something more than just hash tag justice for, there’s obviously a lot more even than this that you could do. But like, you have to start talking to people about the way that this all connects. Because we cannot ever get justice. Whatever that means for anybody. Until we dismantle this fucking system that just sees people as a profit or a threat to profit and does everything in its power to keep people in their place. And that’s like the news item we’re gonna talk about today as well. But it’s just like we have to see the fact that, like, people think that it’s valid to fucking murder somebody because they may have stolen something. Is fucking insane. And we’re all indoctrinated in it. We, you know. Mean like we all grew up hearing the shit all the time. I’m saying we like white people and we buy- sign off on it. That’s why some people are like, what did they do? They’re showing him going running into a worksite and looking at like a partially built property and trying to use that as he’s like scoping out this, like, skeleton of a house.

Nichole [00:13:40] Like, what is he going to do? And they were someone who was saying that they have evidence that like they have in the same tape, there’s a bunch of white people who go and do the same thing because it’s an open work site and like who wouldn’t walk through a house. It’s interesting to see the layout. It’s just cool to see.

Nichole [00:13:59] But that’s the thing in the United States is black folks are here to make us money and we have to keep them down violently because otherwise we have centuries to pay for.

Nichole [00:14:18] Right. It’s exactly why, like, I don’t know exactly where I fall on gun laws, but I fully support black people having guns. I fully fucking support it. I’m not saying like obviously that puts you at danger in certain ways. And that’s a whole thing. But just, you know, I have a friend who is like, I own a fucking gun. Are you fucking kidding me? With all these white supremacists out here and the goddamn government and the police? You think I’m not gonna be armed? And I’m like, yeah, absolutely. And it’s the reason the last time black folks went out and bought guns in mass was the only time the NRA was like, hey, those gun laws, though. Yeah, let’s tighten those up because white people fucking know. They fucking know. So what did they do? They go and just fucking murder people. They throw black leaders in jail. They split up families. They keep people in areas where their votes don’t count.

Nichole [00:15:16] They can’t make proper hourly wages. They don’t have access to proper education.

Nichole [00:15:22] And it will never stop. Racism isn’t just a thing that happens. It’s never gonna stop as long as we have a system that creates class and creates a need for people to be at the bottom and for wealth to be at the top and stay at the top and be protected.

Nichole [00:15:44] And I’m just sorry. I’m sorry to everyone who has to fucking be triggered and traumatized by this all the fucking time. I’m so sorry.

Nichole [00:15:52] I know it means shit, but like, I just I see it.

Callie [00:16:01] Yeah, I couldn’t agree with you more and.

Callie [00:16:06] It’s just, you know, as a as a white person who kind of went through my own awakening over the last several years and got more and more radicalized and stuff, I made all those kind of posts right. And now, like seeing it. And I just cringe because. I I can somewhat obviously not fully understand, but I can somewhat understand now, like the annoyance at seeing like so many of these like quote unquote white allies, like just publicly posting shit. And feeling so frustrated by the fact that these same people like don’t see all of the other ways in which they are uphold the system, you know. And I think you linking those kind of thoughts so well that like you have to be anti-capitalist in order to like really be an ally, you know.

Callie [00:17:09] And you have to if you truly want justice in cases like this, then you have to understand that, you know, these same people that are out here, like I have this one Facebook friend in particular who is not someone I like know in real life. But we like connected because we were in some group on Facebook forever ago. And, you know, she’s very much a liberal. I think she’s starting to become a little bit more radical, but is a long way from it.

Callie [00:17:41] Right. And she posted that. She posted herself after like a a run. You know how they were calling for people to go on like the same length run that he did. And so she posted that and then posted this really long thing about how she’s like a white person. And she wasn’t sure if she should post anything because it’s like taking up space. But she wants other white people to see and understand and all of this stuff.

Callie [00:18:05] And I’m just thinking like. But in the next breath, like in your next post, you’re going to be defending Biden, like you’re going to be defending voting for Democrats, you know? And I get it in her mind. She sees that as like that’s like a harm reduction. He’s better than Trump. And not understanding that the system we have that cri- literally criminalizes certain bodies. You know, they people that are routinely murdered by police, murdered by people who are like. It was interesting to me to see how many people were talking about how this guy was a former cop and how that, like gave him any sort of like, oh, he looks like he’s fleeing.

Callie [00:18:47] First of all, even if he had committed a crime, like it wouldn’t have been a murderable offense like no. That was a piece that was missing in a lot of discourse. And so many white people will without realizing they’re doing it.

Callie [00:19:02] Defend the cops taking lives because either they were afraid or because they thought that the person convicted a crime and they were trying to run away. And it’s like.

Callie [00:19:14] Then let them fucking run away like you. You’re not allowed to, like, perpetuate a death sentence against someone that has not been convicted of a crime. And even if they had been, wouldn’t be murdered for it! Like burglary is not something we put people to death over.

Callie [00:19:35] Within the legal like reading of the laws. Right. We do and a lot of other ways.

Callie [00:19:41] But it’s like you can’t kill someone for that.

Callie [00:19:44] And it’s unbelievable to me how many people are out here like defending time in time and not just in this case, but like time and time again over like, oh, well, if you do anything that makes the cops nervous and it’s like.

Callie [00:19:58] They don’t get to murder us.

Callie [00:20:02] You know, they shouldn’t get to murder us like they don’t get to make those decisions. They shouldn’t have guns.

Callie [00:20:08] We shouldn’t even have police. And, you know, I’m glad we’re gonna be doing the main topic we are today because I want to get into this idea of like freedom and tyranny and how they, like so many white people, don’t seem to like understand what’s going on around them. And to be fair, a lot of them do. And they’re fucking racist and they like our fully fine with people, like seeing the death that they are and explaining it away. And so I don’t want to like make it seem like nobody understands. There are a lot of people who do understand what’s going on. And the people who hunted this innocent man down and took his life are just clearly white supremacists and think that they are fully within their rights to just kill a black person. Yeah.

Callie [00:20:54] And that’s not ok

Nichole [00:20:55] Like what the fuck did this guy do while he was serving as the cop?

Callie [00:20:59] Yeah.

Nichole [00:21:00] And actually had that authority.

Callie [00:21:02] Exactly. And that’s the thing that a lot of white even white allies don’t want to talk about is what percent of our police force are racist? What percent of them are in the KKK or another white power group? What percent of them are like domestic abusers? Yeah, huge percentages of these people are violent in their lives against marginalized people, whether it be their partner, whether it be people out on the street that are of a different like race than them like they are. They get into it because they are wanting that power trip and because they want to perpetuate violence against other people. And this state allows them to do that. And the fact that we have a system that prioritizes capital, private property over lot personal lives is is always going to be the fucking problem. And I don’t care what fucking person that you elect with a D after their name. They are supporting that system.

Callie [00:22:06] And I just don’t understand how people don’t don’t see it, you know, like they’ll sit there and they’ll argue for people like Nancy Pelosi or Biden or whatever. And it’s like. Biden was involved in the crime bill. Like what he was involved in the Iraq war that took half a million noncombatant, innocent civilian lives. I don’t understand how you can like think that these are just one off cases, even when we seem to have one like every other week, they still seem to see them as like these segregated like one offs. Right. And it’s like, no, this is the system. This is the system that we’re in that teaches us to deprioritize certain lives. And I just like I don’t. What more can we?

Nichole [00:22:55] I don’t see how anyone can be, you know, hashtag justice for Ahmaud. And then also like vote blue no matter who. Right. Especially. Vote for Biden. Yeah.

Nichole [00:23:10] Yeah, this is someone who was instrumental in helping to reinforce and escalate police brutality and incarceration.

Nichole [00:23:22] And this idea he has. Crushed like crushed people. Yeah.

Nichole [00:23:28] With the way he’s facilitated, you know, bankruptcy and all these other things. And like to not people don’t fucking get that. And then you try to tell them and they don’t want to listen because they want the world to be simpler, they just want to vote for the not racist party. Guess what? They’re really fucking racist. Yeah, they’re incredibly racist. That was another thing that set me off this week is there’s news coming out that Biden is. There’s some coalition coming together called Republicans for Biden that they’ve been trying to keep kind of quiet. And so he felt like he had the progressives in the bag.

Nichole [00:24:11] And he’s also been consulting with. I think that guy’s name is Larry Summers. But he’s like the architect of neo liberalism.

Nichole [00:24:19] That’s what they call him. And he’s been consulting with them on how to handle the economy.

Nichole [00:24:24] After COVID.

Callie [00:24:26] Well, and not only that, he picked Chris Dodd to help head up his V.P. selection of a woman. And Chris Dodd has his own history of sexual harassment and assault on women, and he’s in charge of picking the female V.P..

Callie [00:24:45] Like what more does this guy have to do to show you that, A, he’s not a fucking Democrat and B, bit like the system cannot change, like the system is the problem.

Callie [00:24:59] Like you can’t you can’t be hashtagging justice for blank in one breath and then ignoring the fact that the system, the both parties, they’re all on the same side. They are all a part of a racist, white supremacist, heterosexist cissexists like capitalist system that wants to crush everyone who is not a rich white cis het dude. Mm hmm. I don’t understand exactly.

Nichole [00:25:35] Exactly. Like, I don’t bring these things up lightly. I’m saying that these economic the economic policies that are going to come out of a Biden presidency are going to disproportionately affect black folks in the United States who are already so badly affected by all of this. It’s not an accident. It’s not an accident, or a coinkydink, that white people in certain neighborhoods don’t think a black person looks like they belong there.

Nichole [00:26:11] Yeah, that’s not just racism.

Nichole [00:26:13] That’s also an implicit acknowledgment of the fact that wealth has been kept from black people.

Nichole [00:26:20] That it’s been consolidated. And kept with white people. We have like it just call people out, call people out.

Nichole [00:26:32] We can’t let people be fucking comfortable with these goddamn hashtags. And then also supporting Biden or just going on with their day like ooh I did it. I did this thing and not understanding like, well, if you actually fucking care. This is the work that needs to be done.

Nichole [00:26:52] OK, Susan. OK, Karen.

Nichole [00:26:55] All right, Becky, let’s get it together.

Nichole [00:26:59] Yeah. Like this is not.

Nichole [00:27:04] And people don’t want to. They don’t want to. I don’t understand how these are not working for anybody.

Nichole [00:27:10] But I mean, just more broadly, like they don’t want to understand that the system is fucked and I don’t get it because it’s not working for anyone. Yeah, the amount of people the system is actually working for is so small, like a lot of the people posting it doesn’t even actually really work for either. But they would rather just take like what they have and just keep things the same and just throw out a hashtag here in there and, you know, throw some pity at people and then continue on with this the system that’s just fucking like falling apart.

Callie [00:27:44] Yeah, well it’s because we’ve the we’ve been so taught that all of the problems of capitalism aren’t really problems of capitalism. So peop-, even people that are suffering under it like don’t see that that’s what the cause is. You know, like they think it’s other things. I mean, look at all of the epidemics we have right now with like opiate problems right now. So many people and just really any drug use, the fact that so many people abuse alcohol and other mind altering substances, that people abuse fucking TV and like unhealthy foods. I mean, we are just like all critically ill in so many ways that they don’t see are connected to the fact that we live in a culture that is like making us sick. We work jobs that we hate for way too many hours unnecessarily.

Callie [00:28:40] Like we don’t need to be working half as much as we are. Right. So many of our job market is just bullshit.

Callie [00:28:48] It’s really just a waste our time and we are struggling to connect with each other. We’re struggling to like get enough socialization and intimacy and like intellectual and emotional development and in all of these ways and they just see these things as like personal failures. Right. Like to not be productive. And it’s like it’s not about that. It’s you can’t bootstrap your way through this. But they see that for a lot of people, they can, you know, relatively pay their bills and they have a roof over their head. And, you know, their kids are probably like fine ish. And so they just see all of these other things as like the personal failings, you know, and not the fact that it’s like all by design. And so it’s easy to look at these two white people that gunned this man down and see that like they’re… They’re bad. They’re racist. I’m not racist because I vote Democrat. And because I tag- I hashtag and because I try to speak to people sometimes about racism. And it’s like we need a real.

Callie [00:30:03] True reconciliation. I hear that word used a lot and like the more I hear it, the more I really love the idea of like we do need like some honesty, you know, some reconciliation with our history about why it is why our culture is the way it is. It’s like all intentional. It’s on purpose. I loved that the article that kind of inspired the main topic we’re going to do today talked about that. Like it totally makes sense that our idea of freedom has been kind of perverted because our history was all about freedom from tyranny, but not freedom to live, because then we would need to really look at the fact that we enslaved groups of people for hundreds of years.

Nichole [00:30:47] And make it can’t ever make that right. We would have to pay reparations, right? And we would have to figure out this whole fuckin system and all that wealth. Yep. Would have to be redistributed. And fuck if capitalism is going to do that when we’d have to fucking way.

Callie [00:31:02] No. And we’d have to stop the things we’re doing now. I mean a big portion of our us our economy runs on death, it runs on war, it runs on incarcerating people and then exploiting their labor. You know you shop at Whole Foods. And look I do.

Callie [00:31:18] But like all of these stores rate, they profit off of the fact that we pay prisoners like cents on the dollar.

Nichole [00:31:26] I was gonna bring up to to add to your point.

Nichole [00:31:32] So I just saw a news item, I think it was in Georgia, but I’m not entirely sure. But there were some waste management workers, garbage collectors who are striking.

Nichole [00:31:43] They seem to be largely black and they were all fired and replaced by prison labor. And if that just doesn’t tell you, oh, where the fuck we are as a country that is literally slave labor. They are literally using slave labor to replace people who are already making basically like indentured wages and using that to get these people out of like the bare job that they had where they were just trying to fight for like better pay, like hazard pay. And, you know, protective equipment, which they should absolutely have.

Callie [00:32:22] They are essential workers due to how fucked you would have been if for the last two months we didn’t have like people collecting waste and garbage.

Nichole [00:32:32] Yeah. Yeah. They’re extremely essential.

Nichole [00:32:36] And they’re essential all the time. All the time. Yeah, right.

Nichole [00:32:40] So it’s like those are people who should be very well paid to have very good benefits, should be treated wonderfully. I mean, that is critical work that any society needs all the time.

Nichole [00:32:54] And yeah, especially now while we’re all at home and we’re like cooking a lot and, you know, just creating all this waste like, it’s especially essential. And yeah, if this is what I’m talking about, like we just have to always have this analysis. You see a news item like that. It shouldn’t just be like, oh, that sucks.

Nichole [00:33:14] Or like, I don’t even know if people would pay attention to it half the time.

Nichole [00:33:18] I honestly think most U.S. citizens would just like scan past it and not even think about it. But it’s like for them to place these people with prison labor.

Nichole [00:33:31] Is fucking dystopian, Yeah, this is a fucking goddamn nightmare we’re living in.

Nichole [00:33:37] And like, do people even see it?

Nichole [00:33:39] Do you even see it? And what the fuck is Biden gonna do about something like that?

Callie [00:33:47] Yeah.

Nichole [00:33:48] Jack shit. So, like, you have to have this analysis and we need to be talking to other people about it and we need to be showing a very strong like spread of anticapitalist sentiment in this country.

Nichole [00:34:05] We have to fight. And the more I’ve been listening to organizers in and then other comment, like podcasters or people do political commentary like whatever revolution happens in this country, it’s going to come from the workers. And you know, Callie and I mentioned it recently, but like even more so just over the last couple weeks, I’ve been thinking a lot about what is my role. What am I supposed to do here? How do I help? And I just do firmly believe that Callie and I. Our role is to spread information, radicalize people, get people thinking in a different way, create content that’s easily sharable so that you can distribute it to other people to try to get them thinking in a different way. And then we just need to do whatever the fuck we can do to support workers in their strikes like Benjamin Dixon was talking about. All of this money that we funneled towards politicians like Bernie, we should be funneling it towards a strike fund so that these people can go on strike and still have their income guaranteed and still have that financial support. That’s the way that we need to be thinking. And that’s what I mean by like, fuck this system. I don’t give a shit if you vote or not. I don’t care. I’m done with this whole structure. So do whatever you gotta do to like make yourself feel good. But then we need to figure it out. It’s like actually make real change. And how do we support workers? How do we support them at every turn? Financially, how do we like physically protect them? What do we do? Can we? He also mentioned like cutting down your like see how minimalist you can get with your expenses and your living. And he’s like, seriously, we all just consume, consume, consume. And this creates like a big problem in and of itself. And, you know, it’s it’s a huge active resistance to just be like, let me live off of as little as possible. I’m not saying like have a miserable life, but like, really be honest with yourself about like, what do you actually need and how, you know, just minimalistic can you get with your stuff?

Nichole [00:36:15] And so just things like that, we need to be willing to sacrifice, like not buying all the shit all the time, or can we instead of purchasing something, could we funnel that towards a fund to help striker’s?

Nichole [00:36:28] And just spread and be very fucking certain in our anticapitalist work. All of our activism. I don’t care what it’s about. I don’t care if it’s about plastic fucking straws. All of our activism has to be centered around anti-racism and all of that work has to be rooted in anti-capitalism.

Nichole [00:36:51] That is it. That is it.

Nichole [00:36:54] You cannot talk me out of this. If you are not doing that work, you are not doing real work. And I’m saying that to my past self. Right. Yeah, but this is the real shit here. When you are posting about this stuff, when you’re looking at these news items, when we’re talking about COVID and all of these things, and I follow a lot of people who do do this, we need to always be framing it from an anticapitalist perspective. Pointing out U.S. imperialism, pointing out racism, pointing out all of these structures at play and just pushing back on everyone, getting to feel comfortable with meritocracy and, you know, bootstrapping and all this other bullshit that allows someone to be gunned down by fucking ex cop because someone thought maybe he had stolen something. We need to be pointing out that that’s fucking insane. We need to be anti-cop. Yeah, that’s fucking scary. And people are going to hate you and you’re gonna get into fights. But guess what? The police fucking suck.

Nichole [00:38:00] There are fucking murder squad, you know, police do. Police are the first line of defense to keep us from uprising.

Callie [00:38:07] That’s a history people don’t like to talk about. They are literally there to protect our neoliberal capitalism and our imperial estate and the property of the rich fucking perverts that run this country. They’re there for them, not for us.

Nichole [00:38:27] Not for us.

Nichole [00:38:28] And like, let’s be fuckin real.

Nichole [00:38:31] And this shouldn’t even matter. But like that nice cop handing out masks to white people at the park. OK, he will put his boot on your fucking neck if you step out of line, even if you’re white. We are getting to the point. This is another thing I’ve been following a lot of activists who like do actual organizing and whatnot and they’re saying like we have hit this stage of capitalism and neo liberalism where like whites are going to start to find out. We’ve hit the stage where the elites have amassed enough power that the rest of us are going to start being treated much more the same.

Nichole [00:39:09] The time is coming. And like I said, that shouldn’t fucking matter. But people are about to find out and I’m fucking terrified because we’re all a bunch of little babies. We’ve been lulled to sleep by capitalism. We don’t know how to even go without a fucking frappuccino for one day.

Nichole [00:39:24] Not to mention like how to fucking like resist and revolt and fight and strike. I don’t know what we’re gonna do, but it’s coming. So we better get it together now. We better get our analysis right. We better understand the structures at play and where they’re coming from and what would fix it. And we need to get behind workers because the workers are our only shot. There are only hope they are going to take us where we need to go or we’re not going to get there. And they need us backing them up.

Callie [00:39:55] Yeah. Yeah. And just stop turning.

Callie [00:40:00] And again, like you said it perfectly. I’m calling out my own past self to stop turning to like middle class white women as any sort of like fuckin leader or sign of the times. Those bitches will sell everyone else out at the drop of a hat like they would not care. You know, they they literally fucked over the progressive movement just because they wanted to see themselves reflected in the presidency. Now, as we come to find out, both Bernie and Warren are trash, but like still before, before we knew that like they literally denied people health care. They denied people like not being thrown in jail at just genocidal levels because they’re fuckin mad about emojis and because they want a vagina in the White House like. So, yeah, I love this idea of looking to the working class as like who needs to be supported? Who needs to be leading? Because all this like fake woke identity politic bullshit is it- it’s just really making us all chase our tails and waste a lot of fucking time that like to be honest, we do not have to be sparing. And that doesn’t mean yeah. Like I I’m starting to get more familiar with the the term dirtbag left. I’m starting to understand that like. Yeah that’s a whole thing we want to be careful of. Like obviously we don’t want to like completely abandon intersectionality or like multi-dimensional activism and and trying to be sensitive in our language. It doesn’t mean we just go the economy and capitalism or the only thing that matters and anything else is unimportant and a distraction. No, we don’t want to be doing that, but we do need to be understanding that like. Any sort of economic system that creates hierarchies. Meritocracies that can explain away others suffering in order to keep it going is always going to be a huge part of our problem in getting any sort of justice or liberation right. Like if we’re living in a system that teaches us that, like others have to be lesser than us, for it all to work is always going to be a fucking problem.

Callie [00:42:39] And that’s why people will continue to be murdered. They’ll continue to be incarcerated. They’ll continue to be exploited for slave labor both in this countries and overseas. They’ll continue to be bombed by us because we want their resources like it all is connected. They’re not separate issues.

Nichole [00:43:00] Right.

Nichole [00:43:01] If you want a good primer, we’re reading feminism for the 99 percent: a manifesto, for our book club, which we’re having on Thursday and Sunday. There- it’s one meeting, but posted on different days so that people of different time zones can participate. It’s only the manifesto itself is only 55 pages. And then there’s like a 30 page afterword.

Nichole [00:43:32] But this is the most fire 50 pages I’ve ever read my entire fucking life. Wow. You Miss, need to read this, because it goes into like what is the root of all of these impressions? Like, actually talks about that. But this is a perfect- like if you want to understand everything we talked about today and you want to have a resource that you can refer back to. This is it. I’m not saying this is like the only thing to ever read, but I know it can be really overwhelming. And I feel like this gets so many concepts very easily understandable, written in like a very radical revolutionary way where it gets you all amped up and it just makes all those connections for you and gives you a language to talk about. All of this and why everything we do has to be rooted in anti-capitalism. It’s written by three women of color.

Nichole [00:44:29] Actually, one of them I’m not sure you know what her deal is, but it’s really…

Callie [00:44:33] Callie bursts out laughing What her deal is!

Nichole [00:44:40] Well, I’m looking at her name and I’m like, ehhh.

Callie [00:44:42] Yeah. I mean, I knew what you meant, but it’s still very funny.

Nichole [00:44:47] You know, honestly, like, I cannot recommend it highly enough.

Nichole [00:44:52] It’s you can get it at VersoBooks.com. And the last time I checked, it was on sale for $2 and on Verso, just like, Haymarket, when you buy any of their books or most of their books, you get a free copy as well. So like you can get the hard you know, you can get the actual physical book if that’s what you like. But you also get the electronic copy if you wanted to be able to read it quickly.

Nichole [00:45:16] I like reading the physical book and then being able to go into the e-copy to like highlight passages and and search for stuff in there. So and if that price, whatever price it is now is a barrier, then you can reach out to me and I can get you a copy. But I just want to try to get Verso Books as many and this book as many sales as possible. So if you’re able to afford it, please do buy it.

Nichole [00:45:41] But like, you know, make that your homework. Like white folks. You know, other people, too, were invited, but like, make this your fucking homework, read this fucking book. Yeah.

Nichole [00:45:52] And then start like, you’ll see. I even tweeted something about Miss Monopoly this week using a passage from this book that just was so perfect to this fucking idea that this game that’s all about like capitalism and like financially destroying other people and gentrifying neighborhoods and driving up the housing market now comes with like a person in a skirt.

Nichole [00:46:19] How equal! They even have this term.

Nichole [00:46:23] That’s called equal opportunity domination.

Nichole [00:46:27] So it’s like this concept that you should be thankful that the drone strikes that are being ordered or the union union busting that’s happening is happening by someone who’s a woman, you know.

Callie [00:46:41] Yeah, well, that’s exactly like that’s what the liberal movement is in this country. People that just want to see-.

Nichole [00:46:50] Yeah, they talk a lot about neoliberalism.

Callie [00:46:52] Token diversity. You know, they just want to see that it’s like someone that’s a person of color, someone that’s a woman. And it’s like that doesn’t matter if they’re going to be just as fucking murderous as everyone else.

Nichole [00:47:08] Exactly. Exactly.

Callie [00:47:10] And it’s not sexist or racist or whatever to like, call that shit out. But unfortunately, that’s what the that’s where we’re at right now. Right. Is people think that if you call out someone like a you know, Kamala Harris, then you’re being fucking races and it’s like, no, she’s a fuckin cop.

Nichole [00:47:30] Right. Yeah. That’s not how that actually works.

Nichole [00:47:35] So yeah, that’s my homework assignment to everyone. And just. Yeah, like Callie said and and like I was kind of hinting at before. I think it’s fine to listen to us, to hear our analysis on things and get inspired. But like we’re not gonna be the people to lead you to the solutions. You know, we’re gonna try to be connectors to get people radicalized, get people fired up and then like connect you to where the people are doing the work that you can support or learn from or join up with. Cause Benjamin Dixon was talking about that, too, and he was he was saying use feeling like he wanted to be out in the streets. But he has kids. And so he just like is behind a mic. And he’s like, I can’t. Like, what am I even fucking doing? And I’m like, I feel that, you know. Yeah, but I think, you know, there are people who lead revolution who are very inspiring, but they aren’t necessarily going to be. They don’t have the time necessarily to sit down and have a fucking podcast every week and have a YouTube channel and have a Twitter and have an Instagram. Right. Like they’re out doing the fucking work.

Nichole [00:48:49] So I do see that there’s a need for- I view our role and I’m seeing us as like all of these content creator class, media class people. Our role is to be essentially deprogrammers and we need to do the work of deprogramming everyone. So then the people who are leading the fight can just get people who are like, I get it, I’m on board. What do I do?

Callie [00:49:18] I love that word so much.

Callie [00:49:22] I don’t think you have said that yet.

Callie [00:49:25] So I love it.

Nichole [00:49:25] I just came up with it. Oh, well. Well, that just kind of came together for me.

Callie [00:49:32] No, I love that.

Nichole [00:49:33] But, you know, I mean, you think about like there are think about like old times and how revolution was represented. And it does seem like there are a lot of people in cafes like reading books and being radicalized. And I do think a lot of leaders, you know, you had like Malcolm X and MLK Jr. and all these people would like give speeches and connect the dots for people. But it’s just kind of different now. And I think like even then, there was probably a lot of people who were kind of the educators, you know, the connectors. And then you have your your leaders. And I’m not I don’t know what the fuck I’m doing with organizing. I don’t want to try to fuck that up. I just want to support. I just want to do the work of deprogramming.

Nichole [00:50:23] Especially white people or middle class people or whatever.

Nichole [00:50:28] You know, these people who tend to not get it and then say like this is where it’s out, like this is what we can do.

Callie [00:50:37] Yeah.

Callie [00:50:38] And the beautiful thing is, is we can all have a role in this.

Nichole [00:50:42] Yeah. Like you all can become deprogrammer.

Callie [00:50:44] Yeah. Or like organizer’s like.

Nichole [00:50:48] Or organizers.

Callie [00:50:49] Or people that are.

Nichole [00:50:50] Or administrators.

Callie [00:50:50] Or providing mutual aid for like organizer. I mean there’s so many things that need to be done and I really love this idea of practicing like putting into practice the idea of like valuing each other’s contributions and not feeling like we have to do all the things because that’s like a very capitalist mindset. Right. Or that there isn’t something that like we can all be well-suited to. And it’s okay that it’s like different, you know? I mean, like, that’s really beautiful. It doesn’t make anything more or less important. It just means that, like, we can all pitch in and create and create a new dynamic, you know, create new communities. And it’s all important and it all shows value.

Nichole [00:51:36] Yeah. Absolutely.

Nichole [00:51:41] So, relatedly, I don’t want to go on about this too much, but I think in a nod to our multi-dimensional approach to everything and also a nod to our former podcast, I wanted to just talk a little bit about. I think there’s been a lot of news around. I do have a particular news item that I’ll post, but there’s just been a lot of general news around meat packing plants and slaughterhouses and, you know, animal processing related businesses are forcing their workers to come in.

Nichole [00:52:23] Sometimes they incentivize them to come in like that. You get paid more every day. You show up. Which may sound good, but it’s not exactly hazard pay. It’s them coercing people into not taking sick days.

Nichole [00:52:39] And then they’ve been threatening. They’ve been threatening workers that if they don’t come in, they’ll be fired. And so they won’t be able to claim unemployment benefits. So they have to.

Nichole [00:52:53] They have to come in or out or I think not even fired, I think they said, like, if you don’t come in, then it’s like you’re resigning.

Callie [00:53:02] Like job abandonment?

Nichole [00:53:04] Yeah. Exactly. So you won’t be able to get your unemployment benefits.

Nichole [00:53:08] So they’re they’re literally like, how is this not slavery? How is this not.

Nichole [00:53:16] This is like this isn’t voluntary.

Nichole [00:53:21] And so you have just so many layers to this, the idea. I’m kind of like over Rising this week. So if anyone else can’t watch it, it’s fine. I get it.

Nichole [00:53:34] I’m still like, I just want a radical new show that actually, like, does the news but is like actually progressive.

Nichole [00:53:44] You know what I mean.

Nichole [00:53:46] I still watch it, but like Saagar is just pissing me the fuck off lately and I just can’t handle it. He actually had this- I just said the word actually so many times- he this week was showing so much sympathy for Brett Cavanaugh’s wife and is still not once had any open sympathy for any sexual assault victim or any rape victim.

Nichole [00:54:10] And I’m just fucking over it. He goes on and on and on about the hypocrisy of how it was handled. And it’s like, yeah, that’s a fair point. But like It’s very clear that you just don’t fucking care about people who have been raped. So maybe you just don’t cover the story then because like we get your take. It’s a very one note opinion. I don’t need to hear you talk about it every single day. Shit like that’s just been pissing me off. But I really want to go somewhere where they’re like covering top news stories of the day. And really the only places quite doing that are like TYT and Rising.

Nichole [00:54:50] Anyway, well,.

Callie [00:54:51] We just going to have to create our own *laughs&

Callie [00:54:55] Just add that to our to do list create leftist news.

Nichole [00:54:58] Oh, no, I mean, that is the goal. That is something we’re actually working towards. Hmm. Yes, I. I.

Nichole [00:55:10] So anyway, one of the things that Saagar did that really pissed me off the last couple like two weeks is that he keeps talking about these these meatpacking plants and saying like, you know, he is on the side of the workers that they should be given proper protection.

Nichole [00:55:27] They should get hazard pay, they should get sick leave and all this stuff.

Nichole [00:55:30] But then he keeps saying, well, they are essential business. He’s like, this is America. Like, if we don’t have meat, people are gonna go into a panic.

Nichole [00:55:41] And I was just like the fucking layers to this.

Nichole [00:55:45] That first of all, you’re going to force vulnerable, marginalised, minoritized people. You’re forcing them to work. Let’s be real. You are. This is what is it like? Economic coercion? You are forcing them to work in this already intensely dangerous job. Yeah. They’ve been showing that these plants are hotbeds for COVID because everyone’s right up next to each other and they haven’t had proper protection this whole time and nobody can call out sick. So these are people also making like exposing people’s food. But who fucking cares about that just for them themselves? These are people who are terrified of getting their family sick, but they also can’t not go to work because then they can’t provide for their families because they’re being forced into working or else under a threat of having any financial support taken away from them. So it’s like this idea, you know, this this way that we already see non-human animals as commodities and consumption. The fact that like people not being able to have their chicky nuggies for a little while is going to throw them into a panic and that this industry isn’t about getting calories to people. And of course, there are people in food deserts and there could be conversations about what kind of food they have access to. But let’s be real. That’s not what any of these people are talking about. They’re talking about the idea that they would have something that they want taken away. And also the fact that like we have gotten to a point where we don’t know how to eat without having animal products on our plate. That is not actually normal. If you look at like traditional foods of most countries, people that the common people, not the like ruling elite, but like, the common people tend to have eaten largely vegetarian diets. So the fact that like we’ve gotten to a point where we’ve made animal consumption so cheap, cheaper than vegetables and more accessible and people have lost the tradition of cooking, which is something that I am very passionate about, that like people do not teach each other to cook anymore.

Nichole [00:58:11] And I don’t blame anyone from for that. That’s by design. That’s another very powerful way to preserve culture and tradition and also to preserve autonomy. How many people know how to grow or cook vegetables?

Nichole [00:58:27] I don’t know how to grow shit. I’m the worst with plants. I’m fucked. Yeah, but at least they know how to cook, you know.

Nichole [00:58:34] But yeah, it’s just the fact that like the standard American diet is one of like highly processed animal product foods is again by design. Yeah. Because what do you do when those foods aren’t there? You don’t know what to do and you’re not going to question it. You’re going to panic. Yeah. So there’s just this idea that like it’s worth these people’s lives to get people from having to deal with like a change in diet or like having to figure something out.

Nichole [00:59:05] And we see that is like normal and acceptable is just. It’s fucking capitalism, baby. You know? Yeah. These workers, the fact that these things are seen as essential business. These businesses are seen as too big to fail. They get crazy like tax incentives and all kinds of bailouts from the government. And then they’re there in essentially economically enslaving their workers and not allowing them to do what they need to do to be safe. The whole thing and then all the animals that are being slaughtered, all of it.

Callie [00:59:43] Well and they’re breeding grounds for disease.

Nichole [00:59:45] It’ just such a swirl.

Nichole [00:59:47] Yeah, they’re it’s them. I think it’s like one of if not the most dangerous job you can have. Yeah. There is one plant, a slaughterhouse worker who said that they stand so close to each other that you can cut the guy next to you. So he’s like he’s it’s already dangerous because if you slip like your you can already cut the guy next to you and then that’s how close we are to each other. On top of that with a fucking.

Nichole [01:00:17] Pandemic happening.

Callie [01:00:20] My God.

Nichole [01:00:23] So just seeing these layers of like it’s, you know, the speciesism or whatever of like the animal consumption on top of the fact that we have created this class of people that we see as expendable and they are the ones who have to go do this bloody work for us to provide us with this luxury item that we want, this thing that we want.

Nichole [01:00:46] And then we’re allowing these companies to, I mean, own these people’s lives and we’re doing nothing for them. We’re like, where’s my steak? Where’s my chicken? Where are my things? Panicking. Panicking. Like, that’s how we could show solidarity.

Nichole [01:01:08] And I get it.

Nichole [01:01:08] Foods tricky like I’ve used to eating vegan, but even I have been like worried about having enough calories because like you can’t count on what’s available right now. And it’s scary. I get that. So I don’t mean to like minimize just in general, like how we get through all this to make sure we’re all eating enough and that our kids are taking care of. But. You know, that can be solidarity to say, you know what? We’ll figure it the fuck out. But like those people are not going back in there. Stand with them. Stand with them.

Nichole [01:01:42] Say we’ll. We’ll do it. We’ll make the sacrifice. But they’re not going back in there. I’m not going to have dinner, you know, off someone’s fucking death. And then keep doing it because people are dying all the time from these jobs. People don’t these people don’t have health care. They don’t have free health care.

Callie [01:02:06] Well, a lot of them are undocumented. You know, they have literally no have no protections like they pay taxes. They work one of the most dangerous jobs out there. And then there’s like no benefits for them. None.

Callie [01:02:21] They don’t get health care, they don’t get Social Security, they’re like. It’s disgusting.

Callie [01:02:30] Honestly, it is, and-.

Nichole [01:02:33] It is disgusting.

Callie [01:02:34] And I know we. This show is obviously less vague and focused than our last one was. But, you know, there are there is a pretty big backlash against like vegan discussion in leftist spaces.

Callie [01:02:47] You know, people will throw kind of a standard like there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism and like all this bullshit out and its like to ignore the human rights violations, the safety hazards, the environmental damage that’s done through this one industry is is disgusting and unacceptable. You know, even if you’re someone who doesn’t want to see the personhood in animals and the fact that we their bodies are not ours, we don’t have a right to like slaughter them and eat them due to our pleasure. There’s so many other reasons why we should absolutely not be eating animal products and we need to like get on fucking board with that because. Yeah. I mean, not to be all doom and gloom, but like we we literally do not know what the next couple of years are are gonna hold. Except we know it’s going to be real fucking bad. I mean we’re headed for a depression that’s probably going to be worse than the Great Depression of the 1930s. People are out of work at just mind boggling levels already. And most likely the second wave of this pandemic is going to be even worse than the first. We’re already seeing issues with people having access to essential goods, to food, to. All kinds of things. And to just. I like Nichole said, I understand the the fear and the discomfort that comes from seeing food not available, especially when so many people are not well trained in like how to eat. That doesn’t center, you know, animal protein. But yeah, we’ve gotta we’ve gotta start to like think in pretty radical ways of changing our lives and and how we live and how we buy, because we’re we’re going to have to.

Callie [01:04:51] To be honest.

Nichole [01:04:54] Yeah. We’re gonna have to. And it’s just good praxis to support. You know, again, if you’re not of the working class where you could be instrumental in these strikes and everything, then that is the way that we can help support. We can cut back. You know, we can funnel that money to other people, but also just spend a message, send a message of like, I’m not buying things anymore. I’m not doing it.

Nichole [01:05:22] You know, it’s it’s a huge active resistance to be as self-sufficient as possible. And I know for a lot of us, like I said, I can’t grow my own food. So, like, I’m gonna have to be a consumer in some ways, but I can scale back on the fancy vegan products they buy. And I can you know, I’ve been cooking beans from scratch again and like just trying to get work that muscle, like, I can take a head of cauliflower and make soup that last me three days that’s delicious.

Nichole [01:05:49] And, you know, I’ve I’ve actually had an itch lately to get back into not food blogging because I hate it, like just making recipes and maybe making little videos of like how to cook on the fly without measurements using like two or three ingredients because I think like you and I have talked about that. You you bring it up that like depression era recipes are like a thing. Yeah. You know, or even like, you know, soul food. Like there’s so many so many cultures thier traditional cuisine is is born out of like not having things and having to figure out how to make it taste good and how to make it like stretch. And that’s something that especially white folks in the United States are just like. That has been completely stripped out of our culture or whatever it liked the collective.

Nichole [01:06:44] And so it’s something that we need to get in touch with and fast and just general conservation and conservation of resources, really, you know, trying to reuse stuff or get down to bare bones and just see like like I’m just kind of grossed out right now by like how much shit I have in my apartment. I don’t need it all. Yeah. You know, am I saying minimalist and that like Marie Kondo, like fucking, uh, what the word- hipster kind of way. I just mean like actually giving yourself space, give away things to other people who need it and could use it and would like fucking love it. And like I don’t know, there is something very powerful and empowering in that. And it changes your mindset and it prepares you for like other stuff down the road. It might sound silly or small, but like it is a big deal. We have been bred to be consumers, thoughtless consumers, and think that we have to have things all the time and we don’t. Yeah. So start dismantling that so that you can have that power. You can have more economic power, you can just have more space and simplicity in your life.

Nichole [01:07:54] And then you can have like the ability to cut this economy off and say, no, I’m not giving you my shit until you like, you get it to-fucking-gether.

Nichole [01:08:08] Yeah. And then like Callie said, also, we’re not going to have much of a choice. I feel pretty fucking soon.

Nichole [01:08:14] And you know, people don’t like to talk about this, but I think it took like four years of people starving before our government actually did anything during the Great Depression.

Nichole [01:08:26] Yeah. So we need to be. We need to not let it get to that point. But like we also need to be prepared that they’re not they haven’t taken care of us yet. Right. They’re not going to.

Callie [01:08:38] No we’re reopening!

Callie [01:08:39] I mean, the states are actively reopening and we’re not even like there yet. Like we’re not even seeing the trends that other countries are and they’re not even opening yet. So, like, we just can’t trust in them to, like, take care of us. And we have to start changing our mindset now that like, you know, when you go to the grocery store, there’s going to be like a dozen varieties of anything you could possibly want. You know, even small things like that, you know, and we and I get it. Like, I I have one brand of creamer that I like for my coffee.

Callie [01:09:14] You know, and if I can get that one brand, I’m like, meh, you know.

Callie [01:09:18] But like, we have to start like unlearning some of these things and getting a little bit more agile, I guess, is the word I would use.

Callie [01:09:29] Just thinking that, like, we can change, we can evolve, we can get a little bit more fluid. We don’t have to like be so stuck with like always having so many options and always needing to like by and just kind of surround ourselves with with stuff.

Callie [01:09:45] Because if we do that now, we’re going to be a lot better off, you know, in the next couple of years. And even beyond that, like say we get through this pandemic, like a lot of us can see that capitalism is failing worldwide. I don’t know that it’ll actually like end, but we can see that like shit’s gettin fucked up. You know, if it’s not this, it’s going to be another pandemic or it’s going to be climate change or I mean, there’s all kinds of things headed towards us.

Callie [01:10:09] I feel like I keep being so doom and gloom.

Nichole [01:10:13] But it’s like fucking true.

Callie [01:10:15] Yeah.

Callie [01:10:16] I mean, there’s I think there’s some strength that can come from like not necessarily living in a dark place of just fear of the future, but also like an acknowledgement that like change is going to come. And like, how do we start doing it now when it’s not so like.

Callie [01:10:35] Emergency like life or death. You know what I mean?

Nichole [01:10:40] Yeah, exactly.

Nichole [01:10:42] And, you know, get plugged in like see if there’s there’s been so many different mutual aid spreadsheets and documents and groups and stuff going around. But like see if you can find out if there’s a mutual aid group of some kind or some kind of mutual aid support in your community and see if you can help. Yeah, I’ve recommended it a million times, but like by buying nothing- is it buy nothing or buying nothing, I always forget. I think it’s because it is always the one that- it’s Buy Nothing. Yeah. Yeah. If you go online and look up the Buy Nothing Project, you can get connected into a Facebook group that’s built around your zip code and you can just give away stuff on there and you’re always gonna find no matter what it is, someone who wants it and is like this is so useful to me. I’ve always needed something like this. So it’s a good way of not like I’m not saying just like throw out all your shit, but like if you’re really not using something like see if someone else can use it. And these groups are built around the concept of like can we buy nothing? Can we get what we need from our own communities?

Nichole [01:11:46] So you might need of Crock-Pot for an event and just feel like, hey, can I just borrow one from somebody?

Nichole [01:11:56] You know, there’s just all these different ways that people can help each other. People post what they need. People will post what they have to give away. And it’s really powerful. And the group that I’m in, we’ve just been. We talked about pausing it, but people didn’t want to do that. So we’ve just been very careful about like disinfecting whenever the item is leaving it out on a porch, or a back alley or something, and then like the person just comes and picks it up.

Nichole [01:12:19] So we’re not like talking to each other.

Callie [01:12:21] And maybe even cutting down on like maybe nonessential gives. You know, if it’s kind of like, oh, you’re stuck at home and so you’re starting to go through your closet, maybe put some of that stuff aside and then wait until we’re not kind of in the middle of, you know, this crisis so that people aren’t exposing themselves, but that it’s still there for people who, like, need things. You know, I had some gluten free pasta that had been in my pantry for a while, and I’m not gluten free, but I bought it because Nichole is and sometimes we eat. But I had had it for a long time. And so I posted it on there. Like the grocery stores have no pasta right now. Does anyone need this? And two people did, you know, and it was really great to be able to like clear some space, but also like help someone else, you know? Yeah, it’s a lot better than like just taking a bag of shit to goodwill where, you know, like they’re just exploiting their own workers and like creating profits for the people at the top. Like, it really is just a great way to like kind of get to know like your neighborhood. And it is like Nichole said, like hyper local. So like even in San Diego, there’s probably like a dozen or something like that. You know, like you even have to put it in because we have all these like little mini neighborhoods kind of within the city of San Diego. So you really do start to see people that are living like, oh, just a couple streets over from you.

Nichole [01:13:45] Yeah. The last person I gave something to was like, oh, I almost moved into that building. You know, like, oh, cute. Yeah. And and it’s been a good way to perform mutual aid.

Nichole [01:13:57] Like people who had extra toilet paper or paper towels, stuff like that have been going on there and being like, I have the staff for extra food, you know, and just just being like, does anyone need it? Can I help with any of this stuff? I have this to give or people have been coming on saying like, oh, I really need this thing. Does anyone have any that they can spare? So it’s been a really good way to like already be plugged into a community and perform some mutual aid. So, yeah, I highly recommend that.

Nichole [01:14:26] But just these are all like small things. But I do think for a lot of us, like, you know, California, we say we’re two radicals who have basically normie lifestyles. And I think that there’s I don’t want to be embarrassed about that.

Nichole [01:14:43] I think there is a need for it. We’ve always said, like, we’re anti-capitalist, but we’re not fucking preppers. Like we don’t live off the grid. We don’t know how to do any of that stuff. And I think that that’s I mean, most people aren’t even radicalized yet. So these are things that we can do that are accessible and they start to change your viewpoint. And I think what’s really important, too, is they start to give you a sense of when they start to empower you. Yeah, a little bit like it’s silly, but like cooking beans from scratch again was like, yeah, I can do this, you know, cause I just have been so busy. And I like I used to make stuff from scratch a lot more often and I was just like, yeah, I can do this. I can live off like I can have a pantry of like dried goods and I can make something happen from it.

Nichole [01:15:29] And, you know, it’s fucking hard because I’m disabled and some days I’m really tired and I can’t always plan my meals ahead of time like that. But I’m trying to find some sort of balance like on a good day. Can I plan to cook beans for the week and have those or cooking quinoa or cook whatever? And just like have it on hand. So the days that I’m hurting, I have my frozen veggies and I can do that just, you know, trying to find that balance because I can’t have like a bunch of cans of beans right now. You don’t have the space. It’s too much to have delivered or pick up from the store.

Nichole [01:16:01] And you’re just trying to find those little ways to to reclaim a bit of that atonomy and that that just sense of that confidence in yourself that you can figure it out or that you are able to do these things.

Nichole [01:16:17] So my I have friends. I have had friends. I’m not even joking. I’m like the solid gu- like Goddexx. They, like, don’t know how to make salad and I’m not making fun of them. But if that. So that’s why I’m trying to say, like, if that is the place you’re starting from, then yeah. Like doing any of these things we’ve said is a big step. Yeah. And it’s really empowering. And that is the mode we need to be in because shit’s about to get really fucking real. It’s been real for a lot of people. But collectively it’s about to get real real. And like we need to be empowered and we need to be connecting like I want to connect with people who know how to grow food without them being fucking condescending assholes to me and just feel like can we work together in some way? Can you teach me? Can we trade off? You know something? Can I. Like, do I have a service or a skill that I can trade for? Like. Maybe some of your gardened things. Anyone out there have tomatoes? I fucking love a fresh garden, tomato.

Callie [01:17:18] They’re just like a completely different species.

Callie [01:17:21] Yeah, it’s like unbelievable. Yeah.

Nichole [01:17:27] But can we get back to like. Yeah. You know, connecting with our community, providing mutual aid, doing stuff from scratch, like people who know how to make clothes. That’s amazing. That will probably come in handy. Like there’s a lot that we could really empower ourselves and get away from supporting these corporations and buying into all this shit if we can do it ourselves and scale back.

Callie [01:17:51] Yes, I. And I can’t tell you how many posts I’ve seen recently of people like learning how to make bread for the first time or sharing like easy bread recipes. You know, like Irish quick bread is up. That’s probably not what it’s called. Or Irish beer bread. It’s like three ingredients. And you got bread, you know, or people trading in these like buy nothing groups like sourdough starters. You know what I mean, and people like learning how to like make sourdough for the first time. And it’s like that’s so cool that we’re like learning how to do some of these things again, you know?

Nichole [01:18:26] Yeah.

Nichole [01:18:27] And I just want people to see I could see some of that seeming privilege or whatever it is to an extent.

Nichole [01:18:33] Bulloch. It is also very foundational and like very, very important.

Nichole [01:18:40] This ambulance is being so rude.

Callie [01:18:42] I love it because I heard it, and then now I can hear it here and I’m like, Oh, yeah, well, I know which direction they went.

Nichole [01:18:50] Yeah. I shouldn’t have said that. I hope everyone’s OK.

Nichole [01:18:55] But yeah, no, it’s it’s very important. And it has been systematically stripped away from us. That we do not know how to do these things anymore. So it matters like it is actually really good praxis to like bake bread from scratch. This stuff matters or canned food. Like I don’t canning food is so fucking intimidating to me because I am so paranoid about like botulism. Yeah. So, you know, like someone who knows how to fucking canned food is like, incredible.

Nichole [01:19:28] And that is someone that I would love to like, you know, have a barter with or whatever.

Nichole [01:19:39] So Callie. Yes.

Nichole [01:19:45] What is procrastinators favorite thing?

Callie [01:19:50] I don’t know.

Nichole [01:19:52] I’ll tell you later.

Nichole [01:19:57] I picked that joke because I did not want to record today.

Nichole [01:20:01] I was very tired. Although now that I’m in it, it’s it’s fine.

Nichole [01:20:10] I think we just wanted to give a quick update and thank everybody we announced last week on Patreon that we had a lot of new pledges and we were just really grateful because we’ve been fundraising to do transcription service for the show. And we decided to go ahead and buy the yearly subscription because we get 20 percent off if we buy the year versus paying monthly. And so we will have transcripts. Now, we had a transcript for the last episode. We’ll have this one. They’ll probably come out a few days after that episode post. So there will be a little bit of a lag because it’s still a lot of work for me to do. But yeah, as I have time, I’m going to go back in. I think I have the first I think of the first episode transcribed up through or sorry, only the first. And then I think it starts at like episode 10. So I’ll make my way back through the back log and get all those updated as well. But we just really wanted to thank everyone. It’s something we’ve wanted to offer for a really long time. I know it helps with accessibility for people, which is super important to us. So thank you very much. And yeah, as you can afford to, we have a lot of stuff that we need to purchase this year. We’re just looking at lights and backdrops for YouTubing, live streaming and videos and stuff. So whatever you can do, of course, take care of yourself first and any organizations and charities and things you want to donate to. But if you have any coins leftover that you want to throw our way, we greatly appreciate it. And we will make very good use of it.

Nichole [01:21:49] And do we want to announce that we are going to start speaking of livestreaming this week?

Callie [01:21:56] Yes. Yeah, we are. We’re finally going to do it. Nichole and I had a very productive bidniss meeting and we talked about our goals for the year and what things we wanted to do and how we were willing to like work together and kind of recommit to the show. And we have are just going to be expanding like a lot.

Callie [01:22:24] We’re both very excited, but we are going to be starting with weekly livestream means on YouTube starting this week.

Callie [01:22:32] So if you’re listening to this the day it comes out, then tomorrow.

Nichole [01:22:38] Yeah. So they’re gonna be every Wednesday. Do we decide what time?

Callie [01:22:43] I don’t think we did.

Callie [01:22:44] 5:00 p.m. did I think 5 p.m. is probably a safe bet for now, but we’ll be kind of flexible on the time. We’ll kind of take a look at, you know, the viewership and maybe do a couple polls in the group just to see, because we know we have listeners like an all different time zones. So we want to try to get something that is inclusive, as you know, we can possibly be.

Nichole [01:23:09] Yeah. So we’re gonna start off with the town hall every Wednesday, probably at 5:00 p.m.. The first one will be at 5:00 p.m. Pacific Time, U.S. time. And that’ll be basically an informal, nice touchpoint.

Nichole [01:23:28] So I know it’s kind of we may eventually analyze like winter episodes come out as well, because for us, we record on Sunday. So for us, Wednesday is a nice, nice kind of halfway point for us to talk about anything that’s come up during the week in a more informal way and then be able with the chat to have live interaction with the viewers, with the listeners.

Nichole [01:23:53] So we’re looking at ways to have more Real-Time interaction with people, which we find really exciting. And this is our first first step there. So, yeah, the town halls every week will probably be like 20 or 30 minutes of us, just like whatever we’ve been think- Callie laughs

Nichole [01:24:09] Don’t laugh!

Callie [01:24:09] That is such a joke.

Nichole [01:24:12] We’re going to be so profesh. We’re going to be so profesh.

Callie [01:24:16] Girl, we never say anything for only 20 minutes.

Nichole [01:24:21] That is so fucking true. Yeah.

Nichole [01:24:29] But we’re gonna do some amount of time going over, you know, news items from the week or just things or thinking about things that are on our minds and then we’ll open it up and do say 30 or so minutes of and we’ll keep it kind of loose. I mean, that’s a rough structure, but it’ll we’ll just let it flow the way it’s flowing naturally. But yeah, just take like comments and questions and stuff from the viewers and have a nice kind of interactive conversation. I’m not sure if we’re gonna post the recordings. Yeah, we may just keep it alive event and just have regular schedule for it. But we’re we’re we’re thinking about that. Yeah. YouTube’s kind of weird with the algorithm with posted versus livestream stuff. Sometimes it can hurt you. So we’re trying to figure that out. But we’ll see. We’ll see what happens. May I please join us, if you’re hearing this in time this week and if you’re not hearing this in time, then please join us on a future week.

Callie [01:25:28] Yeah, we’re so excited. And really, I’m.

Callie [01:25:32] I know we both love to exaggerate, but I am not when I’m saying that we have a lot planned for this year.

Nichole [01:25:41] Yeah, it’s very exciting.

Callie [01:25:42] Yeah. We’re we’re really gonna be like upping our game. We know that with the rebrand we kind of like refreshed a bit ourselves, our branding, our messaging the way we wanted to kind of get behind the mike every week, but we’re just gonna be adding a a lot more content. We’re obviously a lot more active on social media than we had been before, mostly due to Nichole. So hats off to you for that. But yeah, we’re just we’re really excited. We feel very fired up by. What’s going on in the world and how we’ve been able to kind of clarify our vision for like how we want to participate and help, so we’re we’re really excited and really thankful for all of you, like showing up for us like time and time again. I mean, we put a call out for raising donations for transcription service. And like y’all kilt it like within a week we basically had like raised what we needed to to be able to like, commit to it. And we continue to see donations coming in. We put out a call that we had started a YouTube channel that we haven’t even really started doing anything on yet. And we’re already over like well over a hundred and twenty subscribers. So we’re just. Thank you.

Callie [01:27:01] And we’re excited to keep offering you more content, more value, more us!

Nichole [01:27:11] All the us that you can take!

Callie [01:27:13] Probably more than you can take, but.

Nichole [01:27:16] Yeah. Pick and choose wisely.

Callie [01:27:20] But we’re just really excited.

Callie [01:27:22] Yeah.

Nichole [01:27:24] Yeah. Very excited. YouTube’s going to open us up, I think, to a wider audience and maybe help us people to fund this in a way that I can continue to do this full time. And then Callie could possibly at some point start doing this full time. That’s that’s the goal. And yeah, I think I just feel good about it. Yeah, I feel like it’s going to get us there. Me too. So to that end, I hear word on the street is that we have some new patrons to think this week.

Callie [01:27:56] What a smooth transition there.

Nichole [01:28:00] Listen, bitch. This is next level professional shit. OK?

Callie [01:28:05] I can’t believe I forgot the word for segue. Smooth segue. But what have been some beautiful.

Nichole [01:28:11] It’s okay. It’s one of those days I’ve lost most of my words. This has been a struggle.

Callie [01:28:17] Yeah. For real. Yes. We have gotten a few new donors. So a new re-occurring PayPal donation from Theodore. Thank you, Theodore. And to new patrons. Knives millions. The fuckin fire name. I love it. I know you’re in the Facebook group because I’ve seen your name, so. Hey there. Thank you for donating. And then also. Anthe. I hope I’m pronouncing that correctly.

Nichole [01:28:47] Well, thank you all very much. We appreciate it. One last plug for the Discord server if you’re interested in joining. We are doing the book club that I mentioned before. For the book that I mentioned before.

Nichole [01:29:01] And we also I’m very excited to announce I haven’t done it yet. It’s on my to do list. So hopefully by the time this airs, that’ll be done.

Nichole [01:29:10] But in regards to last week’s advice question, all of our Jewish members have come forward to welcome Debbie. Funny enough, we actually have another atheist Jewish Debbie in the group.

Nichole [01:29:23] So she was like, hey, I’m not the one you wrote in, but I am also.

Nichole [01:29:28] So we decided to create a community for Jewish folks. And what I’m going to do in Discord is actually create a community category and then create like a queer community, a trans community, a Jewish community, black community.

Nichole [01:29:45] Right now we’ve decided to keep them open. So anyone could join. But just understand that it’s for those communities. We’ll see how that goes going forward. And I’m very open if there’s some of the groups I want to be closed than that is totally cool. But yeah, if you’re part of the group, let me know if there’s a particular channel you want to see for your community. And also, if you want to join Discord, since I haven’t set up a screener server yet, just reach out to us on any platform, email or Twitter or wherever Instagram. And just ask us for a link and we’ll send that to you and get you in there. Yeah. And then of course, we have the Bitchy Shitshow on Facebook that you can also join and they’ve talked about creating groups in there as well, which is a little bit harder to manage. But I said anyone I’m open to creating any group as long as someone’s willing to moderate it for me or for themselves.

Nichole [01:30:38] So we’ll be doing that in there as well.

Callie [01:30:40] Yeah, that’s exciting.

Nichole [01:30:42] Yeah, it is exciting.

Nichole [01:30:44] I think that’s gonna be really cool for everyone to have their own little space to go into and talk to other cool people.

Nichole [01:30:50] Yeah. And if you want to donate to the show, if you wanna follow us on social media, if you want to subscribe to our YouTube channel. All of that information is on our Web site at the bottom of any of the podcast notes. I have been lazy and I have not updated the site to have those things on the home page yet.

Callie [01:31:08] Girl, I’m gonna spritz you with a water bottle or something.

Callie [01:31:12] Every time you call yourself lazy, you’re like the least lazy person I know.

Nichole [01:31:18] I can’t seem to like decolonize that.

Callie [01:31:20] I know, which is why you have me. Who’s gonna just keep reminding you every time?

Nichole [01:31:26] I appreciate it. I do appreciate it.

Nichole [01:31:29] I know. Someday. Yeah, maybe on my deathbed I’ll be like “I’m not lazy”, but more likely it will be like, “oh, I didn’t do that last thing.”

Nichole [01:31:43] I’m so embarrassed.

Callie [01:31:46] You’re going to be like please respond to the email in our inbox.

Nichole [01:32:00] Please update the WordPress template.

Callie [01:32:06] Oh, my god.

Nichole [01:32:08] Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole [01:32:09] So on to the main topic.

Callie [01:32:14] Which is my-

Nichole [01:32:15] I think that we’ve kind of woven throughout the day a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole [01:32:20] What were you gonna say?

Callie [01:32:21] Oh I was gonna say I feel like this is another episode where we’ve kind of switch like the main topic is probably going to be shorter than what ended up being like or kind of just general news and discussion of the beginning part. But I think it all ties in really well to what we want to talk about.

Callie [01:32:37] I’m excited to to bring it up and then we actually know we’re going to talk about next week, which is always exciting because then we get to announce it. And that ties into this main topic. See, look at us already being totes profesh.

Nichole [01:32:52] So fucking professional. I don’t even know how you all handle it, honestly.

Callie [01:32:58] Oh goodness. So unless you would like to announce it, since it was your find, I don’t want to steal your thunder.

Nichole [01:33:08] I’m okay with you announcing if you’re comfortable.

Callie [01:33:11] Sure.

Nichole [01:33:12] Unless you want me to.

Callie [01:33:15] So Nichole found a brilliant really fire article on medium and the title is How Freedom Became Free Dumb in America. This is posted on May 5th. So it’s quite recent and the article itself is a very quick read. It’s only like it says it’s five to nine minutes. I love how medium- does that. By the way, just a little aside. Kind of lets you know what you’re getting in to. Because you’ll start to read an article and you realize how fucking long is this? And you’re like, oh, it’s like an hour. Cool.

Callie [01:33:54] So anyway, this article and this is so we I guess we want to say I want to say I don’t necessarily speak for you, but so some of the language used obviously in the title and then throughout the article would be considered ableist language.

Callie [01:34:08] So we want to be sensitive to that and call it out. I think there’s a good justification that the author makes as to why a certain word should be reclaimed or that they have reclaimed it in in their scholarship and in their activism with other people when they talk about the subject. But I also acknowledge that that’s very tricky. And the author doesn’t say whether or not they’re part of the disabled community. So I know there’s like a whole argument to be made there about whether or not they can be someone to argue whether a word should be reclaimed or not. But we’re just gonna be like sensitive to that on this episode and talk about it and hope that you’ll just kind of bear with us in this discussion.

Callie [01:34:56] But then if we fuck up, we apologize and let us know.

Callie [01:35:03] So this article was, like I said, very fire. And the crux of it is that. The first kind of. There’s two main points that I really took from the article. The first is the word idiot, and that that was actually a word that had a very specific meaning in ancient Greece and that that’s how the author is using it and continues to use it in conversation when he’s when they’re trying to make the certain point. So the Greek definition of it was a person who is only interested in private life, private gain, private advantage, who had no conception of a public good common wealth, shared interest to the Greeks. I’m reading now from the article The Pioneers of Democracy, the creators of the demo. Such a person was the most contemptible of all because even the Greeks seemed to understand you can’t make a functioning democracy out of idiots. And I thought this point.

Callie [01:36:14] You know, beyond kind of feelings of reclaiming the word idiot or not, the idea that. There is kind of this ignorance that comes from being unwilling. Slash unable to see beyond yourself and kind of the immediate like, what do I need, what do I want? And I think we’re seeing that a lot right now. Right. We’re seeing other countries coming together. It was also interesting to me as I was immediately kind of thinking of like videos that started to come out remember from Italy, where the neighbors were all kind of like singing and playing music and songs. And it kind of just became this like communal thing. And I remember that being shared a lot in on Facebook before we really were shut down in the same way that like Italy was before it really had taken hold here. And there’s always this kind of sense of envy. I think when we see other areas coming together. But what Americans seem to miss is like that you have to actually do that. It’s not just some magic thing. It’s not something that these other cultures or countries or areas just like have by default. And they’re just lucky. I mean, they work on it. They care. They have a system set up, both government and cultural, that reinforces the idea of like collective good that we’re missing here. So, yeah, this idea of the American Idiot as the author talks about this person who, you know, votes time and time again to not have health care for everyone, to keep capitalism in place, to keep voting as difficult as it is I mean, we just constantly vote both in the voting box and just with our day to day actions and in our conversations against the collective good. And the author made a really good point that I think explained it well that we. That part of that is because we don’t want someone else to get something before we have it. But in order to get it for ourselves, we have to want it for someone else just as much and sometimes even before we get it. And so that was such a clear problem with like the Medicare for all debate that we’ve been having as a country for like specifically the last two or three years. Is really when it kind of fired up, its this idea of like this is the health care I have. And why do you get something for free that I don’t? And it’s like.

Callie [01:38:58] We all would get it if you would just stop standing in your own way and in the way of someone else who’s even more vulnerable to this.

Nichole [01:39:08] Yeah. If it’s like so many different directions, we can go with this but.

Nichole [01:39:15] I’ll just say, since I’ve been kind of tossing it out there recently, you know, I’ve been thinking a lot about like populism and can like left and right populists come together to get some of these things through. And it’s interesting because I guess Matt Stoller and Saagar Enjeti just I think were interviewed but somehow got. Yeah, they were interviewed by someone on the Federalist which like ugh. And that the topic was about I guess I didn’t realize Saagar and Krystal Ball had written a book called like Populism for the Twenty First Century or something like that. And so anyway, Matt Stoller and Saagar Enjeti were interviewed on the Federalist and and it was around this topic of like can left and right wing populists worked together to get things through. And a lot of people were commenting on the article and just the concept. So I listened to scuse me, I listened to a Millennial Review episode.

Nichole [01:40:22] And then also Benjamin Dixon brought it up on his podcast.

Nichole [01:40:27] And basically, like across the board, they seemed pretty, especially going off of this article. This interview were pretty like set that like no it’s just not a thing that’s going to work. And because they were talking about says Saagar was saying stuff like, well, if the left wanted to, I think the question was like, what would the left have to do to be able to, like, work with the right and have the right open to working with them? And he was like, well, they have to stop thinking all Republicans are racist and they have to let go of like this woke performative like culture. And they have to see a difference between like economic and like cultural policy and be willing to, like, move right on some of these issues.

Nichole [01:41:17] And I was just like, fuck this. You know, and I- I appreciate.

Nichole [01:41:22] I’m sure there’s some people in the audience that were like ugh when I was talking about it. So I appreciate you hanging in and just let me kind of work through it. This whole like this whole election season, everything that’s happening, it’s just. And at least I feel better because I see people who have even been doing this work for a long time who are like I also don’t know what to do or I feel a little lost right now or a little overwhelmed.

Nichole [01:41:46] So, you know, Callie and I are just like consistently new to this space that we’re in because we’re always like moving further and further left and getting more radicalized.

Nichole [01:41:57] And yet we’re doing it in a sort of philosophical way where we’re not like boots on the ground, we’re not like frontline people. But, you know, like I did have in my heart that like, well, this many people want health care than like, why the fuck can’t we just, like, get health care, like, work together and just be like, listen, we’re not talking about abortion right now. But then they made the point on these two shows, I think especially a millennial review, they did a really good breakdown of it. But they made the point that, like, you can’t even do that, though, because the Republicans going to say, well, I don’t want federally funded abortion or I don’t want health care to cover abortion or I don’t want health care made available to people who aren’t citizens or I don’t want this health care being used for trans transition surgery. So it just really clicked into place that I’m like, yeah, they’re never going to sign off on actually universal programs. And then it’s just what is the fucking point if we keep leaving people behind in these programs that are supposed to be universal?

Nichole [01:43:01] So anyway, kind of to circle back to the point that you were making, the point this article is making it just.

Nichole [01:43:08] It is so.

Nichole [01:43:10] And yeah, maybe idiot and idiotic is not an okay words like reclaim or use anymore, but like we need some word of like this concept of someone that is just so I’ve been calling people zombies, but like someone who’s just so bought into neoliberalism, who’s so infected by it that they literally will shoot themselves in the foot to just make sure that that guy over there doesn’t get something. Yeah.

Nichole [01:43:35] That they also want and need like literally everyone.

Nichole [01:43:40] I don’t care who you are. Literally, everyone benefits from health care.

Nichole [01:43:45] Literally everyone.

Nichole [01:43:47] It is like that just out of pocket that people would stomp on that and like block it because they don’t want certain people having access to it. It’s cruel and it’s short sighted and it’s just, you know. And then, yeah. Here I think, like, can we mend this rift? Can we get past some of this stuff by like reclaiming our economic purposes? But then the social you can’t separate the two. You know, the cultural as they’re calling it, stuff is like also economic. It just is. Yeah. Like, I’m sorry, fucking conservatives. But people exist. Like trans people exist. Whether or not you want to acknowledge them or whether or not you want to provide like they’re here, they exist, they’re real. So like blocking them from having these these access to these benefits is just it’s just not going to work. I’m not willing to do that.

Callie [01:44:46] Yeah, I I’m glad you brought this up because honestly, I’ve just been like really, really kind of internally struggling with trying to figure out my position. You know, after we we did that news segment where I talked about, you know, looking at these protesters and could we find any like common ground there? Could we you know, are we repeating the mistakes of 2016 by just like writing off all of these people and stuff? And we had a very thoughtful critique of that segment. And I’ve just really been all over the place kind of internally trying to like take in the criticism. And I guess criticism doesn’t even really feel like the right word. It was just kind of like open dialog about this person kind of processing what we had said and stuff and meat processing that. And then it’s all just really difficult to find our footing on. Right. Because like, it’s kind of like some of the things I I believe I have to remember come from kind of an idealized place or a place where we kind of don’t have an entire history and system of like indoctrination and learned ignorance and learned hate. Right. Because some of these things like abortion, I’m just kind of like. But if we had had like actually if we’d been taught science, if we do teach actual science that it like wouldn’t need to be this hot button. But like we don’t live in that world, you know what I mean? So like I can’t write off. So anyway, I just always say, like I just really acknowledge, like everything you’re saying. And I hope to our audience that if if you’re still processing feelings from that segment, like know that we are too. And we’re just trying to figure out, you know, because obviously we we don’t want to like downplay the harm that people do. But like we’re also in this place of seeing that like, we’re not really winning, you know, like we’re not really winning this, like we’re not winning politically, we’re not really winning like the the cultural battle. You know, the only wins we really are getting are like neo liberal ones that seem like progress until you realize that you kind of have shot yourself in the foot by letting like affluent white people think that, like, they’ve done the work and now they can stop listening and then they keep you from progressive policies. So it’s it’s just all very complicated.

Callie [01:47:36] And I don’t know, the answer…so.

Callie [01:47:40] But this article, I think, really tapped into some of these like thoughts and feelings that I’ve been having by by coming up with language that kind of helped me, I think, better understand what we’re up against. You know, why we’re so bad off with people that are just like really like really passionate, but like completely missing the mark, you know, like like they’re against tyranny.

Callie [01:48:10] But then they’re like pro-cop and it’s like.

Nichole [01:48:15] Oh, it’s just a fucking like a stew of contradictions and hypocrisy.

Callie [01:48:22] Right.

Callie [01:48:24] And yeah. And some of that comes out of like just pure hate. You know, I don’t think there are mistakes. All of it.

Callie [01:48:32] But I do think some of it is mistakes.

Callie [01:48:34] Bullock How do you how do you kind of find your way with that, you know, of people that could maybe be taught to like learn and come around, but.

Nichole [01:48:46] But I think what I’ve come to is I think just to expand on it a little bit because I think it’s helpful. I think for me what I kind of came around to is like, I’m not going to try and I’m not going to advocate for. I’m not going to work against. I’m not going to say it’s wrong to do this. But I’m not going to like myself or advocate for people to work with certain people or to try to work with certain people. What I think right now, this could change, but what I think right now that I see is that there has to be a very strong workers’ movement.

Nichole [01:49:23] Right. This worker’s movement will probably have a very strong female leadership and be like probably black POC led because every successful movement ever has been. And. And this is Feminism for the 99% help me too. Because that’s what it’s. That’s literally the point of the book is like you can’t have these fucking movements that leave people behind and you can’t like not understand how the stuff connects together. So what I could see happening as a workers movement where they’re like Medicare for all period. Right. Medicare for every single fucking person. Single payer like no bullshit universal program.

Nichole [01:50:08] And then you might get right wing people who are like but, but, but ,but.

Nichole [01:50:11] And people are like, no, it’s this is it. Get on board or not. So not saying like you wouldn’t stop and talk to someone about like why that was important or how it may benefit them, but you’re not going to be trying to get those people on your side, because I think it it you know, it’s semantics, too. But it’s I think the idea and this is what everyone critiquing this interview was saying is like the idea that you’re even coming to the table as like we both need to move from our positions in order to work together is where you’re already losing. Yeah. The left has already moved so right politically. And we on the true left understand that you cannot compromise any of that. You just can’t do it. So I think that that’s kind of like where my head’s at right now is I’m not saying these people like…

Nichole [01:51:07] I don’t know. Like, I’m not saying like I wouldn’t work with them, but just saying that we need to have our own power. And then if they want to come to the table, it’s on our terms. Yeah. If they want to come to the table because they’ve dismantled this, you know, quote unquote, idiocy. Right. They’ve been able to like. Come out of this capitalist fugue state long enough to say, oh, shit, I like finally realized I’m working against my best interests and my family’s best interests to say, great. We’ve got a thing going here. We could use your vote. We could use your dollars. We could use your protest sign like whatever you’re willing to throw in. But like, we’re not taking anything out of what we’re doing. We’re not compromising this for you. And I think one of the biggest things that’s come out of this election that we’re now all hyper like painfully aware of is that is the camp that is used to being catered to politically. Right? Yeah, that is the camp that either Republicans have an- and it’s such a chicken or the egg scenario because it’s like the Republican Party has, you know, essentially accelerated, you know, this Christ- Christian doctrine in the United States to make these social issues more to keep us from each other. Right. Because now we have this like ridiculous fake thing to fight over. But anyway, this is where, you know, like the line has been drawn over what would someone like Saagar would call a performative wokeness, where we’re saying like, no, we’re just not leaving anyone behind.

Nichole [01:52:50] But these people in the middle are used to being and even the people on the right are used to being catered to by these politicians while everyone in the left has been held hostage by the fact that, like they don’t have anywhere to go. The Democrats are supposedly the left party. So they’re just like, hey, any progressives, we don’t they don’t have anywhere to go. I even just wrote a whole article about how like the black vote has been held hostage by Democratic Party and how, like, you know, this is shown to just it’s a point where it’s just so transparent that they don’t give a shit and they’re not doing anything for the black community. Yeah. Besides like literally feeling entitled to their vote. I mean, you see Biden and talk about the black vote and he literally feels like entitled to it like he doesn’t have to do a fucking thing for it.

Nichole [01:53:45] So so anyway, that’s just kind of where my head’s out with all that in tying tying it into this is that this is a contingency of people who have learned that.

Nichole [01:53:59] Their viewpoint is to be catered to and they can sit back and make all of the demands that they want and they’re gonna have somebody bending over backwards. I mean, you have Biden who’s who’s vetting Republicans for these people. These are the people whose votes he’s trying to get. He’s not trying to get your and I- you and me, our votes. Right. So I think that’s kind of where my head’s out with just what I’m thinking about it. But I like everything that you said, too, because I do think it’s very it’s just very hard. It’s hard to know what to do right now. And it’s hard to know. How we move forward effectively with our country being so fractured?

Nichole [01:54:48] I had a feeling, a thought and feeling the other day that like these are the people I think I said it to you too. I’m pretty sure it off-air, but these are the people. I feel that we’re going to have, you know, to fight two segments of people, we’re going to have to fight like the government and then we’re also going to have to fight these people. And that scares the shit out of me. I don’t know. Like, I don’t understand enough about other countries to know, like if we are more fractured than other countries have been. But we are so deeply fractured. Like I I was thinking the other day, I’m like I literally could see a civil war over this kind of shit.

Nichole [01:55:31] That’s how bad.

Callie [01:55:32] I mean, honestly, I’m kind of surprised we’re not in one now or haven’t had one recently. I mean, I mean, the 2016 election was so bad not just because of the result, but because like you had a a at that time candidate like literally calling for an armed revolution if he didn’t win, because that would have meant that Hillary cheated like that. That’s pretty like unprecedented. Within at least our modern history. You mean like someone calling for, like you that sort of like take up arms and like and fight. It’s really dangerous. And the problem is, like every side is so entrenched and we’re all in kind of our own bubbles. And obviously, I think one side has like rightness and morality on their side and the other doesn’t. But I think we have to like my my whole point with that segment. And and I don’t think I did a good job of getting this across. And I think that’s why it came across kind of clumsily and offensive, to be honest. But it’s that like how do we kind of how do we go forward acknowledging that, like this ignorance is like taught to us. Like it’s not just individual failings. It’s like literally learned helplessness. And we are taught to be ignorant and we are taught to take the wrong sort of messaging. You know, we’re taught in schools about manifest destiny and the right of American imperialism and and and even the lessons of like our history. We’re not. Like I was not taught about the Haymarket riots and about the the contributions of like anarchists and and socialists and communists and like I learned about like labor movements and how like, you know, we were exploiting labor and how we essentially had a lot more like slave labor than we like to acknowledge.

Callie [01:57:47] But I was not really taught like specifics, you know, and they do that on purpose because obviously they don’t want to be like, look at how these group of people like save you from like the tyranny was only from Britain back in the seventeen hundreds. And once we had the American Revolution, then like, you know, it was all done. And we were a free country.

Callie [01:58:08] Like everything you’re taught is about freedom. We are free. We are the freest. Like that’s what America stands for is democracy and freedom. And you just hear that over and over and over and then you. It’s no wonder then why you see people like storming Capitol buildings with their fuckin rifles, screaming about reopening the economy, you know, because like.

Callie [01:58:29] It’s not right. But like, that’s what they were taught.

Callie [01:58:35] Yeah, and it’s it’s all very complicated, you know, to like see that it’s like a lot of this doesn’t necessarily sit on them for their fault, but like, obviously some of it does because some people are able to like eventually look around and be like, whoa, like that shit is not what I was told. So yeah, it’s it’s all just it’s all very hard.

Callie [01:59:04] The other thing about the article that I think was the most impactful beyond kind of this like very useful definition of of idiot from the early, you know, Greeks and how they viewed it, which I think kind of helps explain how some people are responding and reacting to the current crisis that we’re in. Is the idea of freedom and that there are really two kinds of freedoms. And one is freedom to. And the other is freedom from.

Callie [01:59:33] And that in the U.S., we really got freedom from, quote unquote, tyranny when we had the revolution and we separated ourselves from Great Britain.

Callie [01:59:45] You know, we were then free from the tyranny of a king, right. Of a royal family that was taxing us without representation and oppressing people. But something we’ve never really talked about here in this country is like the freedom to. And that after World War Two there and again, this is all from the article. But that after World War 2, Europe had a really incredibly powerful revolution, like a cultural revolution and a political one. And they really started to enshrine within their governments and constitutions the freedoms to. And that’s why we can look at them now and see obviously there there’s some backsliding happening now with things like Brexit and countries that are chipping away at their own universal health care programs, but that they started to recognize the freedom to have health care, the freedom to have a livable wage, the freedom to have like true safety and security and health and a financial future and retirement. And those are rights that like we’ve never really had here.

Callie [02:00:53] And it’s why it’s so frustrating now seeing the kind of, you know, you have this leftist political movement that’s happening. Right. But then you also have this like backlash of these like right wing, like screaming about how they want haircuts and they want their restaurants reopened and they want the right to go back to work. And to them, it is that they’re they think they’re fighting tyranny. They’re doing what they think the early colonies did. Right. They’re pushing back against.

Callie [02:01:25] Nichole, your eye rolls are just like every 30 seconds that it’s giving me life laughs. You’re pushing back on the government, taking from them while not understanding that like they are being the idiot of not seeing beyond what they want in that moment their own good, that they’re not seeing that like if we don’t all kind of work together, then then it all falls apart and that we’re there should be not right, just a right to work and to earn a living, but that there should be a right that like your government takes care of you.

Callie [02:01:59] And I’ve been thinking a lot about anarchy recently, obviously, with everything going on in the world. And it’s it’s funny to me that people most people in this country are so like pro the military. They’re so pro the police, they’re pro government to a certain extent. And they scoff and are fearful at the idea of anarchy. Right. Because they think it would just be pure chaos. But it’s like, what then is your government, if not like looking out for you, if not protect, like, why would you agree to the tyranny, the oppression of someone like taking your taxes to someone like, you know, doing all the like having a police force that could then infringe upon your your privacy and your rights and even your safety, depending on, you know, which community or from which marginalization you may have. Why would you agree to any of that? If when the chips are down, when there is a crisis, the government doesn’t step in and take care of you. So it’s like we have all the worst parts of like a government that oppresses us, but then doesn’t actually do what a government should, which is like take care of us.

Nichole [02:03:17] Yes. Yes, I’ll post to a video by the Funky Academic.

Nichole [02:03:22] But he did a. I can’t remember his actual name right now, but he did a really good video. He actually did an interview on Rising. And he always like talks the entire time. And then they like have to cut him off.

Nichole [02:03:36] And it’s very awkward.

Nichole [02:03:39] But so he followed up on his YouTube channel and he basically, like, you know, did a full expansion of what he had been talking about on rising, but which was the role of government and what government is supposed to actually do. And its function is supposed to be to help you. I think he said it was like to provide like a stable environment and information to enable you to make plans.

Nichole [02:04:12] So he’s like, you can’t make plans if you don’t have like if you lose your job and you don’t know, like you don’t have any support, you can’t make plans if you can’t go to college or if you don’t know where your next meal’s going to come from. He was like, you can’t make plans if you don’t have enough wealth that the people around you have more wealth and could just buy out your neighborhood at any given moment. Right. So he’s like this system has been our system has been built so that, you know, the middle class, which is now basically like the professional managerial class and the elites can make all the plans they want because he said, you look around saying a pandemic, something happens.

Nichole [02:04:59] It’s the black folks. The people of color, the poor folks, the working class are going to facilitate you still being able to have the plans that you made. And so I think that just kind of feeds into, you know, the way that we look at government, especially white folks, look at government and government to them is supposed to enact their beliefs. But re enact the beliefs of the people who can afford to make the most noise. Be that financially or be that with fucking literal rifles on Capitol Hill.

Nichole [02:05:40] And they don’t.

Nichole [02:05:43] They they see it as also something that’s supposed to protect and preserve their wealth and their perceived like way of life. That’s why you hear like, again, there’s so much hypocrisy in what a right wing person even believes because you don’t think that they should take your guns. But somehow me having an abortion is what do they say? It’s like they call it like cultural genocide. They’re like, you’re ruining my way of life. How is me having a surgical procedure ruining your way of life? It has nothing to do with you. How is me getting, you know, gay, married, have anything to do with you?

Callie [02:06:28] Yeah.

Nichole [02:06:30] It doesn’t.

Nichole [02:06:30] No, but their view of government is like you. Basically, their view of government is like a spoiled child, like you need to provide me with all the cookies that I want. And you also have to keep everyone around me from doing things that I don’t like. But like, not me, you don’t get my way, but you get in the way of everyone else. And it’s just like what I said before. You know, I just read an article about how, like. I think it was with the Black Panthers, like black folks started arming themselves, and that was like the one time that the NRA was like, you know what? These gun laws are sound and real good right about now. Why don’t we put a bunch of these in place so it’s harder for people to get guns. And that just shows you that the whole thing is a fucking sham. And it goes to your point, too, of like how scary this all is and how I mean, this all is an extension of like slavery. Like the South has never let it go. Yeah, their curriculum has literally taught them that they like, you know, are the what’s the word I’m looking for? Not the victims, but like they were wronged by the civil war. You still I mean, how many years now has it been? And people still have Confederate flags and they’re the ones I’m not saying just Southerners, but like those types of people are the ones that are armed. We’re all not armed. And like black folks haven’t been armed because they this was what Benjamin Dixon was talking about. Like they were taught that if we’re armed, we get fucking killed. If we’re armed, we’re scary to white people. So he said, OK, Lake, let us be peaceful. We won’t be armed. Like we’ll be good. And guess what? We’re still getting fucking murdered. So maybe we need to arm ourselves. But like, that all was by design. This is another reason there’s so much violence against black folks is because they don’t ever want them feeling comfortable enough to show up at Capitol Hill with fucking guns.

Callie [02:08:39] Yeah. Or just to even live their life and and use the rights that they have access to. You know, I mean you there have been several examples of black folks even in the last couple of years that have been killed in open carry states because police thought they had a gun. Things like they were holding a cell phone. They had their hand in their pocket. I mean, all and it’s like they’re in an open carry state.

Callie [02:09:07] Even if they had a gun, that would have been legal and they didn’t even have one.

Callie [02:09:12] So it’s like and yet you have these fuckin white folks without masks on. Yelling in the face of police officers with a rifle on their back like a full fucking rifle. And they’re able to do that, you know.

Nichole [02:09:29] But they just stand there calmly and took it. And no big deal. Yeah.

Nichole [02:09:35] Yeah.

Nichole [02:09:35] And I think that’s a really good point you just made that I don’t know, like skip over. Is this idea of freedom from an even freedom to. None of it applies. None of the freedoms that we have apply to black folks or indigenous folks in America or immigrants in the United States, I should say. Yeah. I don’t think that there’s one fucking right or protected right that we have that black folks can actually equally participate in. I don’t think there’s a single one. They don’t get to vote. They don’t get to carry arms. They don’t have freedom of speech. Yes. So this whole concept is just a fucking sham. Yeah.

Callie [02:10:22] Yeah, you’re absolutely right.

Nichole [02:10:24] And for some reason, these people are so invested in keeping it that way. Yeah. And I’m not saying like for some reason, like, I don’t get it. But it’s also, you know, again, for people I mean, you have libertarians out there who think like there should be no government and yet still participate in these hierarchies, in these forms of oppression, which makes no sense.

Callie [02:10:49] Or or would argue against abortion or something.

Callie [02:10:51] And it’s like, oh, you don’t want government? But you think you can tell someone else what to do with their own fucking uterus? Like what? Yeah. Or who they marry or live with or how many people they live with. I mean, it’s just it’s it’s absurd in like the most extreme sense of the word, you know.

Nichole [02:11:15] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Nichole [02:11:18] So I just thought this this concept was interesting that the freedoms that we have here and the author talks about that, like how because we’re a society that’s born out of slavery and contin-continued into segregation and, you know, still profits and still basically has modes of slavery, slavery that just aren’t chattel slavery like.

Nichole [02:11:45] Of course, we’re not going to look at freedom to. We don’t want people to have freedom to. We want people to continue to provide this massive labor force for us. And like you said, there’s so many death economies that we have. So we want rugged individualism. We want people serving as cautionary tales, you know, starving to death or dying of exposure or being a homeless. What have you getting murdered by fucking cops and having the world just be like, yeah, that was justified. Or, you know, people who get raped and sexually assaulted and sexually harassed and people are like, yeah, well, it was your own fault. Right. Like, we want we don’t want there to be victims that aren’t the privileged class so that we can just continue to not have.

Nichole [02:12:39] We don’t have freedom from shit. We don’t have any of it. We literally fight to have religious freedom here. And we don’t have it. You have freedom to be Christian as fuck. You don’t have freedom to be anything else.

Nichole [02:12:53] You don’t even have the freedom to be fucking atheists. You don’t you don’t have any of your needs met in policy. You don’t have, you know, someone who could run openly atheist as president. You don’t. And I’m not trying to put atheism in like an oppressed class. I’m just saying, like, there is not religious freedom. What we’re supposed to have freedom from as well is like religion in our policies. We don’t fucking have that.

Nichole [02:13:21] Not one fucking bit.

Nichole [02:13:24] How in the world can anyone look at this country and claim like they want to use the Constitution for their fucking guns. But then we don’t do that for separation of church and state? You imposing on my abortion rights. You imposing on a million other things, my right to marry whoever the fuck I want. And have those benefits and those legal protections. Like that is your religion infringing on my rights. Yeah, I am supposed to be free from that in this country. I am not-

Callie [02:13:57] It’s kind of the whole deal of why this country started.

Nichole [02:13:59] I know the whole fucking deal.

Nichole [02:14:05] And then citizens are supposed to have the right to bear arms in case they need to fight their fucking governments or in case of like war and foreign invasion. And we don’t have the rights that your average citizen. You’re you’re not privileged citizen can not fucking have weapons safely or have a right to that. Not one bit.

Callie [02:14:31] You’re supposed to even have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of property. And like we don’t even have that. Like, you don’t have the right to life because the police straight murt innocent people all the time. Liberty.

Callie [02:14:47] We are we incarcerate the most amount of people in the entire world. One fifth of our population is incarcerated and behind bars and used for slave labor. So right to life? Nope. Right to liberty? Nope. And then we live under capitalism, which guarantees you no rights to financial freedom or property or any of those things. So it’s like even the things that people think we have the most basics, we do not. But I just I thought the article was so, so brilliant in pointing out that, like, you can’t have one without the other, like you can’t have true freedom from if you don’t have freedom to. And that reminded me a lot of like the debate we’ve had over social issues over the last few years in particular. It’s like the right to an abortion, right. Not that that’s really it fully enshrined. Right. But it’s like people that want to talk about access. Right. You like you have access to an abortion. You have access to health care. And it’s like that’s not really the same as like a freedom to do something. Because if there are other things in place that make that impossible or just critically difficult to obtain, then you don’t really have that right. Like, if you don’t have the money to have an abortion, then like, does it really matter if you have access to abortions? You know, I mean, and like right now, Nancy Pelosi, one of the things Jimmy Dore has been really ranting about recently, which has been giving me a life, is that one of her biggest answers right now is like this crisis that’s happening is that we should reopen the Affordable Care Act market. So basically the insurance markets and he’s like people don’t have money right now.

Callie [02:16:36] Like 30 million people are out of work. They don’t have jobs.

Callie [02:16:41] The answer to this crisis is not to allow them to buy health insurance because they don’t have them. What good does the ability to buy it, the access to buy health insurance if they don’t have the money to fucking buy it? Like that’s no sort of answer in a pandemic. And it’s exactly the crux of this whole point. Like this whole episode. This whole article. Right. It’s like what freedoms like do you really have access to?

Nichole [02:17:09] Yeah.

Nichole [02:17:10] Anything that ties in to what the funky academic was saying about government. Exactly. You know, he didn’t use the same words. He really focused on the concept of plans and being able to plan. But that’s exactly it. Like, do you have like I’ve been thinking a lot about the Constitution and like, do we even need one? You know, this concept of this document being written and then supposed to be applicable for like forever. And yeah, we have amendments, but like those suck, too. And those are really hard to get put in. And so I’ve just been thinking a lot about like, you know, envisioning the revolution happens and we’re in our anarcho-communist utopia, you know, and like, do we do we want to have something like that, some kind of unifying document like can tie us all together? And I don’t know the answer, but but my thought would be, you know, using this article, like thinking about like, I want to have the freedom from dying, from a lack of health care.

Nichole [02:18:15] I want to have the freedom from dying, from a lack of resources. I want to have the freedom to walk down the street and not be fucking like molested, raped, murdered. You know, I want every and I’m talking like everyone having these rights. And then like, can we come up with a list like that? And then anything that’s agreed upon is like communal lore, like does it facilitate those things or not? Yeah. And I just think, like, that’s the best that we could do. But I just hate in this country how much the constitution- and it’s hard, right? Because like, obviously, I don’t want the cost constitution dismantled because sometimes it’s like the only thing holding the worst of it back. But it’s been so perverted and it doesn’t apply. And it was written by like elitist people, white men. That and it just it just scares me like it just scares me, this idea that there could be one governing law for everyone that’s like already determined. And of course, that’s like my anarcho-communism coming out of like thinking that things should be just determined in communities locally and be adjusted as needed. But yeah, just this concept of like we just what we call freedom here and how ridiculous it is, like it’s not an infringement on your freedom to get it. Not be able to get a haircut. That’s not what that means, but is definitely impeding someone’s freedom to not be able to not go into work where they have a very good chance of catching something that could kill them or their family.

Nichole [02:20:00] Yeah.

Nichole [02:20:01] You know, that person isn’t that person isn’t free to work.

Nichole [02:20:06] That person is not free. They’re being forced to work and they are not free to not work. If that is what is better for them and their family. Right. So, yeah. This weird perversion that’s come out with this. This lockdown of like this is them having their freedom taken away. And it’s like no people have their freedom taken away every day having to go into work. And it’s not losing your freedom to not be able to go into work. But you won’t have that conversation, will you? Yeah. You’re just trying to shove people back into jobs where they always had to go and didn’t have the freedom not to go.

Callie [02:20:42] Yeah, well I kice I slightly disagree with your point, but only to the extent that it’s like it is an infringement on people’s freedoms to not be able to like go out and frequent a business they would like to but like that that has to be weighed against like the communal good and communal needs. And that’s the piece it seems to be missing because like under capitalism, we’ve all been taught this like individualism and to not care about the harm done to other people. Right. And so you have these, as the Greeks would call them, idiots of people that are only concerned with their own self wants. They’re kind of selfish needs and whims, you know what I mean. And that the government is like and this kind of gets to my point where I was talking about like people being so afraid of anarchy, but then not seeing the ways that they’re like oppressed now. And it’s like if the government tells you that you that like businesses are shutting down for the good of the community’s health, then like there also is a responsibility that they make that right, that they make sure that people still have like food and healthcare and housing. You know, if they’re saying like, hey, look, this, we couldn’t have predicted this virus coming out at this moment in time. We all need to shut down. It’s real bad, guys. We need you to stay home for the greater good. But we also recognize that that then infringes upon your right to, like, make a living so that you can, like, pay for your housing and your food. So like, we’re going to step in and take care of you. Like, that’s the only reason why any of us should agree to a government is if they’re going to take care of us. My point was that, like, they don’t take care of us. They only infringe upon our rights. So like, what the fuck? Yeah. You know.

Nichole [02:22:42] Yeah.

Nichole [02:22:43] And I mean, I agree with that. I’m just saying that these people are framing like I want a haircut and I’m being my freedom is being taken away because the government is not forcing my hairdresser to reopen to deliver me that haircut. Yeah. And that’s a lot of what these people I guess that’s kind of another layer and point to this is that they see their freedom as.

Nichole [02:23:09] They frame their freedoms around activities that cause someone else to lose theirs.

Callie [02:23:20] Yeah.

Nichole [02:23:21] Cause I agree, I mean, not being able to go out for a walk.

Nichole [02:23:26] Like.

Nichole [02:23:28] Is a certain loss of freedom, and the trade off is obviously that we’re agreeing as a community that that is not a safe thing to do, but like that is different than your freedom to like have someone forced into business. And we’re seeing that like this is hopefully my use of slavery wasn’t like offensive to anyone, but I am not exactly sure what else to call it, because those I mean, you talked about our friend who. That’s like something a lot of small business owners and working class people are struggling with right now as they’re being told to go back to work. They don’t feel safe. And yet if they don’t do it, then they will not get government assistance.

Nichole [02:24:12] And a lot of that pressure is coming from these people who are like, I have a right to get a fucking haircut. So get your ass back in that that salon bitch. Yeah. And give me, you know, my multi-layered many highlighted highlights.

Callie [02:24:26] Lowlights. Yeah. All the light. No.

Callie [02:24:31] And I’m not I’m not disagreeing with you or say that these people are being. And I know you’re trash monster.

Nichole [02:24:37] Yeah. You know, but it’s true too.

Nichole [02:24:39] Yes. Like if our government is going to shut down as they should, then like their responsibility is to facilitate food. Being delivered to everyone. Is to facilitate health care being provided to everybody. Is to facilitate income for those people. Is to protect businesses and employment. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, we should have had like the government should have delivered masks to every home. Yeah. Even that like these masks often aren’t cheap. And I know from someone I just hired to do a job, which is a whole fucking conversation I won’t get into. But like he had to run to Ace Hardware to get, you know, some screws or something that he forgot to bring in. They like made him buy a mask before he went into the store for $10. And so it’s like, yeah, you should be wearing a mask. You should have fuckin worn one over here because I told you I was compromised. But then to expect someone to be able to buy a $10 mask that you’re only supposed to wear once and disinfect is like not realistic. Yeah, especially while people don’t have jobs. So yeah, I agree with you. Like I don’t think we need government personally or you know, what we would refer to as government. But if we’re gonna have any government at all like that should be the role should be basically like an administrative role of just facilitating citizens having freedom to and freedom from.

Callie [02:26:10] Yeah. And that those rights really need to be like enshrined somewhere. You know what I mean? And like actual true bill of Rights, like a personhood bill of rights where people like bodily autonomy and safety and security and a right to like a stable financial future, like are all enshrined, you know, agreed upon and and really upheld. Yeah. Because it’s just. Yeah. Yeah, it’s just reminds me a lot, too. It was funny reading this article because I was actually thinking back to literally when I was like in elementary school and all those little like shits on the playground that would run around like the minute you learn about free speech as a kid. It’s like the worst month of your life because all anyone does is shriek about how they have the right to free speech and they could say whatever the fuck they want. It’s like that’s not what that means. But like, that is like our level of understanding of all of our rights in this country. Like, we just really don’t have like a nuanced, deep understanding of people’s true rights and what our government what rights our government grants us, what rights should just be like inalienable and what responsibilities the government has to like protect our rights and us. Right. Other like otherwise, why the fuck would we agree to there to giving up anything if what we’re getting back is not? I love what you were talking about, the funky academic saying like the right to be able to plan to have like basically a stable environment to like plan and grow for our future. You know, like I think about all these small businesses. Apparently, 40 percent of small businesses are at this point saying that they don’t think that they’ll be able to like keep their doors open if they’re ever able to reopen at all. Forty percent of small businesses. And that’s after like two months.

Callie [02:28:14] Two months of this and the government’s not doing anything.

Callie [02:28:17] And if the government tells you you have to shut down, you should not have to lose your business because of that, because the public safety, you know, they mean like that’s what a government should be and it wants a built responsible for. But instead, we have all of these like talking point, like understanding of our rights.

Callie [02:28:35] You know, I have the right to free speech. I can say whatever I want or I have the right to rule religious freedom.

Callie [02:28:41] And it’s like all of these things are so grossly perverted and misunderstood. And it’s just. And then, of course, obviously, like living in a capitalist hellscape where so many of our rights and responsibilities come from this like death cult, that capital has just really fucks people’s viewpoints up. You know, of what we should be entitled to.

Nichole [02:29:08] Yeah. Really fucks them up. Yeah.

Nichole [02:29:15] Well.

Nichole [02:29:18] That’s it.

Callie [02:29:19] It’s all we got.

Nichole [02:29:22] It’s all we got.

Callie [02:29:23] But yes, thank you for finding this brilliant article.

Callie [02:29:27] So I feel like the language I got out of it will be like extremely useful. You know, in in serving as another kind of lens to filter everything that’s been going on through.

Nichole [02:29:40] Yeah. Yeah. It is a very useful lens and just kind of framework to have. When looking at this sort of thing and it was interesting that it’s framed around, you know, talking to a friend who’s from Italy or in Italy. And just, you know, in this country, too, we just have a very weird relationship with the rest of the world. And like have in general no perspective of other countries, which is just wild to me. Yeah. Like to have such strong opinions about how things should be.

Nichole [02:30:17] And you can’t even look literally right next door to see like how Canada’s doing things or or just have the perspective of like, you know, this person was saying their Italian friend is just laughing at the US. But also there’s a lot of contempt and disgust there because he’s in a country where, you know, they’ve suffered pretty massive losses. And have like really pulled together as a community, a whole community to like try and they have their problems, obviously. But just to cease to see a whole country of people who are just not taking it seriously and are putting their families at risk and are clamoring for other people to like go back to work, to die.

Nichole [02:31:01] You know.

Callie [02:31:02] Or to pack beaches. And they’re just like, what are you doing? Yeah. Like, you’re just so angry about wanting to go to the beach that, like, you’re willing to risk millions of deaths, like literally millions. It’s unfathomable to people outside of this country and a good amount of us inside this country.

Nichole [02:31:24] Yes.

Nichole [02:31:27] Yes. Yes. Yes.

Callie [02:31:28] Great article.

Callie [02:31:29] And as promised. Yes. We will actually announce we’re gonna be talking about next week. I’ll let you do that, since it’s your idea.

Nichole [02:31:38] Are you sure you’re committed to this? Cause it’s a big ask.

Callie [02:31:42] Yes. I am.

Nichole [02:31:42] OK.

Nichole [02:31:44] All right. So next week, we are going to be doing an analysis of The Platform on Netflix.

Nichole [02:31:54] This.

Nichole [02:31:54] I thought this movie, I kept hearing about it and then a posting on social media a couple times and like it’s like crickets. So I’m like maybe it wasn’t as big of a phenomenon as I thought, but it’s a pretty intense movie. So I don’t blame you if you can’t watch it.

Nichole [02:32:10] Maybe just read a synopsis of it, but it has like some really.

Nichole [02:32:15] I’m very excited to talk about it because essentially I feel like it’s an incredible critique of capitalism. But like almost unintentionally and there’s just some amazing layers to the movie that I think are going to be really fun to go through.

Nichole [02:32:31] So if you care to watch it, it’s on Netflix. It’s incredibly gory, incredibly gory. So I will just put that out there. Not for the faint of stomach.

Nichole [02:32:43] Don’t eat while you watch it.

Nichole [02:32:45] But if you’re if you’re able to get through it, I do think it’s very well done in a in you know, if it’s something that won’t bother you too much, it’s like it’s very much worth a watch. It’s I keep comparing- it’s funny because I’ve heard no one else. I’ve watched like a million analysis of it now. No one else has compared it to this movie. But I think it’s like very comparable, which is Mother! which I did review with Andy back in the day, back on the VWPA. So if you only instead of it being like a short segment of like intense, gory, disturbing stuff, it’s the whole movie. So take that with a grain of salt. If you watched Mother! And you really liked it and found it interesting and the part at the end didn’t bother you too much, then you should be able to get through this pretty fine. But I will say I got through it, and it has all of my least favorite things. Yeah, that I hate watching. And but I was able to get through it. But we’ll do a little recap. And like I said, there’s plenty of things online where you can watch on reviews and analysis and stuff where they don’t like show any gory things if you want to follow along. Yeah, yeah.

Callie [02:33:56] But I’m excited to talk about it. I don’t know that I’m excited to watch it, but I’m excited about it. Just you asked on, we’re told, getting it. So, yeah. You’re gonna hate it.

Nichole [02:34:06] But the premise is like fucking fascinating. And it’s just it’s going to be such a good conversation. So, yeah, please tune in next week. And I promise, even if you haven’t watched it like it’s still gonna be really. Interesting conversation and it’ll be a lot of really cool symbols and. Stuff to go through metaphors and all that creative bullshit.

Nichole [02:34:30] Yeah, all that artsy fartsy stuff.

Callie [02:34:38] Yes. But I thank you for listening today. We hope to be able to chat with you tomorrow. You’re listening to that’s on Tuesday on our first of our weekly town halls. And if not, we’ll catch you next time.

Nichole [02:34:54] Yeah. Talk to you later!

Callie [02:34:56] Bye bye.

Nichole [02:34:56] Bye.

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