016 The Platform Analysis: Capitalism Sucks, Obviously.

Poppin Off

Before we get to our analysis of The Platform, we take a VERY LONG ranty ride through our reactions to Joe Biden’s latest “gaffe” (aka he did a racism) this week with his quip to Charlamange Tha God from The Breakfast Club that if black folks still question who they’re voting for then, they “ain’t black.” We also go on a tear about his treatment of Stacey Abrams, and then fall through a whole thing again about vote blue no matter who

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Why don’t cannibals eat clowns?

The Platform Analysis: Is Spontaneous Solidarity Possible?

We both LOVED Netflix’s gruesome yet beautiful Spanish film, The Platform, and so today we’re doing a deep analysis on the messages in the film and what came through for us as two staunch anti-capitalists. We explore what the film says about capitalism, socialism, communism, anarchism, class warfare, limited resources, neoliberalism, and so much more. Plus, Nichole has a few “hot takes” that she hasn’t heard anywhere else on the internet!

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Transcript

Nichole [00:00:26] Hey, everyone. I’m Nichole.

Callie [00:00:28] And I’m Callie.

Nichole [00:00:30] And today we’ll be talking about.

Callie [00:00:32] The Platform!

Nichole [00:00:33] Woohoo!

Callie [00:00:34] Finally!

Nichole [00:00:37] But first, we are going to pop off about Joe Biden.

Nichole [00:00:44] I’m sure that’s shocking to all of you who have followed the news this week.

Nichole [00:00:51] So, Callie, what did would a good old, good old Joe get up to this week?

Callie [00:00:55] Well, you know, he just made another harmless gaffe, which is just code for he once again is showing his racist ass to the world.

Nichole [00:01:09] All over the Internet.

Callie [00:01:12] Yeah.

Callie [00:01:12] So Charlamagne did an interview with Joe Biden as part of his show The Breakfast Club. And it was when the interview was starting to wrap up Biden’s person, whoever he was like a staffer or whatever, was trying to rush him off. And Charlamagne kind of push back in through this last minute question at him and Biden just responds, “if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black.” And Charlamagne pushed back and was like, it’s not about Trump, it’s about like, you know, what you’re offering and like what you’re gonna do for us. And then it created this like small exchange or then Biden was pushing back against that and saying, like, check my record, check my record, like I extended the Voting Rights Act, you know, 25 years or whatever.

Callie [00:02:06] And it is just once again, Biden is just completely showing himself to be a white supremacist. Like the audacity for him to say to even think that he gets to weigh in on blackness and who is or isn’t black and what’s the best for black people like is the very definition of like a white supremacist attitude, you know?

Callie [00:02:33] And it’s like furthermore, Biden, we did check your motherfuckin record. It’s terrible. Like, yeah, it is fucking terrible.

Callie [00:02:41] You are one of the fathers of modern day slavery, i.e. mass incarceration. Like we’ve checked your fucking record.

Callie [00:02:49] You’ve been trying to cut back on Social Security and you know, quote unquote entitlements your entire career. You’ve worked with segregationists, like you were part of the driving force of the war in Iraq, which took half a million lives and has like fucked up an entire generation, two generations now of people here, like we have checked your fucking record.

Callie [00:03:14] I just can’t I can’t even believe- well I can believe it- actually, no, I can’t!

Callie [00:03:21] Even when I even when I think that it’s like he’s hit rock bottom, he’s reached a new low. He then says something like this, like this is bad on a whole nother fucking level.

Callie [00:03:35] The comfort that he feels in saying this to a black man in an interview like this is not a joke.

Callie [00:03:44] He said this is not a thing he said to like some guy at an event like this was an interview. And you’re saying something like this.

Callie [00:03:53] I really don’t understand why people think that he would be any better than Trump when he is just so clearly comfortable. Exuding this level of attitude, like he just he keeps repeatedly telling voters, like, if you don’t believe me, if you don’t like what I’m offering, then vote for someone else. It’s like you do know that you’re trying to get votes, right? Like you just- he views the American public much the way that Hillary did.

Callie [00:04:23] Although with a kind of different affect, like she really felt like it’s my turn to be crowned, like I’ve put in the work, I’ve done what I needed to do. It’s my turn. He- his is not even coming from that place, but it’s still coming from this kind of same entitlement of just like I don’t have to prove anything to you like I’ve done enough and I’m better than him. So, like, why is this even a question? It’s like that’s that’s not how any of this works.

Callie [00:04:51] And even if it was, why would you not still try?

Callie [00:04:55] Like, why do you feel like you don’t have to earn people’s votes?

Nichole [00:04:59] Yeah.

Nichole [00:05:00] And it just I think I mentioned this recently, but I read an article about how the Democrats have basically like had the black vote hostage for ever. And this is just such a pure example of that.

Nichole [00:05:15] Like we see this literally embodied in Joe Biden where he I mean, this is the umpteenth time that he’s acted and spoken about the black vote in an extremely entitled way.

Callie [00:05:29] Yeah.

Nichole [00:05:29] Now to the point where he’s expressing his belief that if you don’t want to vote for him automatically, then you’re not actually black.

Nichole [00:05:40] But this is this is just the most extreme representation of him always having had this belief. I mean, we saw it during the debates when he was literally telling people that he had the black vote. I mean, you’ve commented on many times when he said that, like Obama brought him on to get the black vote.

Nichole [00:06:01] It’s just…

Nichole [00:06:05] It’s like I don’t know if it’s just pure, like, self-delusion or whatever, but it doesn’t matter. The bot- the bottom line is that- and the thing that also is really important here is not that just Joe Biden’s racist trash, which he absolutely is, but he actually represents how the Democratic Party views the black vote. Yeah, he is representative of what they actually think and say behind closed doors, which is where the fuck else are they going to go? Yeah. And that’s why they harp so heavily on Trump being racist, which Trump is racist. But he’s a lot of other things too. But they used that as a way to to keep from themselves having to not be racist. Right. They can just make him out to be this big racist boogie man and then just tell themselves, will black people always vote Democrat so we don’t have to do jack shit to get their vote. And sadly, it’s kind of true in a way, like a lot of votes have been held hostage for a long time, right? The progressive vote. The youth vote. The black vote. So, you know, that’s where I think there’s gonna be a rude awakening this cycle with people finally standing up and saying, no, and I don’t think people are gonna go vote for Trump. I think they’re just not going to vote or they’re gonna vote Green Party or whatever it is. But, you know, I think I think that the Democratic Party has finally broken the loyalty of all these people who’ve who previously felt like they had nowhere to go.

Nichole [00:07:42] But yeah the audacity, and the whole situation was really fucked up because I actually watched the whole clip. And Charlamagne, you know, Biden’s handler came on to say, okay, like you have to go right now. And Charlamagne was like, c’mon, man, don’t do that to black media. And Biden’s like white black media, white media. Doesn’t matter, man, my wife needs to go on it at 6 o’clock. So, like, I have to go. And he’s like, all right. Well, we’ll definitely have you back on. You know, I hope we have a lot more questions and there’s a long time to go before November. And that’s when Biden was like, if you like, still have questions. If you don’t know who you’re voting for, then you ain’t black. And he was like he did is like Biden typical thing where he’s like, listen, Jack, you know, and like leaned in towards the camera. So it would have been bad enough if he is just talking to Charlamagne. But he was addressing the audience.

Callie [00:08:36] Yeah.

Nichole [00:08:36] With this he was saying because, you know, Charlamagne was like we like collectively have more questions, not just himself. And yeah. And Biden was like, listen. And then I saw Biden’s supposedly apologizing for this now by basically saying he was being flip and cheeky and he shouldn’t have been. So like they just passing the whole thing off as a joke. And it’s like if that is even in your consciousness to say it’s not a joke.

Callie [00:09:05] Yeah.

Callie [00:09:07] The disdain that he has that the Democratic Party has for their own voters is what, again, every day convinces me that like voting for them won’t get us anything. Like it- they’re not the lesser of two evils because they they really. They have. They loathe their own voters. They feel like they don’t owe their voters anything. They don’t owe us policy concessions. They will openly manipulate the election to steal it from Bernie, which is like I even hate phrasing it that way because I think people are too hung up on like that.

Callie [00:09:48] They did this to Bernie. They didn’t do it to Bernie. They did it to us. Right. Bernie’s policies are what we wanted. Like, it really doesn’t make any sense. To look at this election like people are like, oh, but like Biden won fair and square, so that’s what the people must want. It’s like, first of all, he didn’t. There was so much voter suppression and voter fraud. And second of all, like people may have pulled the voter or the, you know, lever for him, but then they wanted Bernie’s policies. They want Medicare for all. And so we’re we’re allowing all of those points to get laws like we’ve been hearing a lot of progressive media that’s like well, like, you know, we got to be we gotta be up front.

Callie [00:10:35] Like we gotta acknowledge that, like the progressive movement didn’t win. So that’s not where the people are. And it’s like but policy for policy, they are right. They just like bought the media lie that Biden could win. And because no one really held him accountable during the, during all the debates and during the run up to the voting, like people didn’t have a good understanding of like what his problems are. And now they’re all coming to light when it’s like, quote unquote, too late. I don’t think it is too late, but I think most of the media is while frankly, all of the media is saying that, except I think like Krystal Ball is the only one who is still.

Callie [00:11:15] Hey, guy. It’s like he’s not even the actual nominee yet.

Callie [00:11:21] But yeah, it’s so frustrating. Like, they just they they hate us. And I don’t.

Callie [00:11:29] I I get the despair that people feel, but this whole argument of like he may not be great, but he’s better than Trump and we can fight like hell the day after he’s put into the White House to move him left. It’s like he hates you. You cannot move him. He doesn’t care about you. If he doesn’t care about you now, he’s certainly not going to care about you later when he doesn’t need your vote, especially as someone who’s not going to be running again. I mean, we all know he probably won’t even make it through one term, let alone two. So he’s he doesn’t really need to do anything we want because the only power that voters have in this system, and it’s very little at the best of times is our vote.

Callie [00:12:15] And we don’t have that with him. He and the other reason I don’t think we can ever move him left is because he never takes accountability for his actions. Like never. If you ever question him on his record, if you ever question him on anything, he gets snappy. He tells people to vote for the other guy and he makes these like like really weak sauce, like apologies. Like his apology for this was and it wasn’t even really an apology. But his statement is, quote, “shouldn’t have been such a wise guy.” This is not you being a wise guy. This is not you making a joke that didn’t quite land right. Or maybe is kind of inappropriate to some. This is you showing that you feel entitled to the black vote and that you’re a fucking white supremacist piece of shit.

Callie [00:13:04] And he always does this and his team does it and the media does it. We just call them these these gaffes.

Callie [00:13:11] These Biden gaffes. And it’s like they’re not gaffes when someone shows you who they are. Fucking believe them. He has shown us time and time again who he is.

Nichole [00:13:23] Yeah, I was. I’m trying to look it up on medium. But, you know, we just had that article about the American Idiot and I’ve been following this person on medium.com. He’s been doing a lot of work around the economy and how I guess he actually predicted the situation we were going to be in 10 years ago and got a ton of shit from it, from all the major news sources. But, you know, he’s done a lot of work around, like why are people voting against their best interests in the United States? And and it’s all by design because we’ve been stripped down so far that we literally can’t even conceive of.

Nichole [00:14:10] Someone who. Like like, he said it’s it’s highlighted in the fact that people voted for Biden. And then came out and said that they.

Nichole [00:14:19] Supported the policies of Bernie.

Callie [00:14:21] Yeah.

Nichole [00:14:22] But it’s like you’ve gotten people to such a point on such a wide scale that people literally don’t have a dollar to spare. So the idea that their taxes might go up, even though their premiums are gonna go way down is like too much to bear. Or they’ve just gotten so disillusioned that they just don’t think that it’s possible. They don’t believe that their government is actually going to let something like that happen. And, you know, and we just see that like epitomized in Biden in this whole fucking election cycle, which has been so disgusting, like, okay, fine, Biden is the presumptive nominee, I guess.

Nichole [00:14:58] But like he he like has to go get votes.

Nichole [00:15:05] This is about November now for him. And we see he’s just literally doesn’t give a shit. He doesn’t give a shit because they really honestly feel like people have nowhere else to go and they do. I just love that you said it like they completely fucking hate us.

Nichole [00:15:22] They’re disgusted by us. Like the Democrats are supposed to be the. The Labor Party, right, but they’re like fucking repulsed by the working class. They think we’re fucking. Like they just think we have no intelligence, that we’re like selfish, you know, that we just want things for nothing. Like, it’s just so gross. They look at us like people, you know, we’ll look at like their servants or something like the the elites will look at like they really think we’re a country of servants for them.

Nichole [00:15:57] It’s like just make money for us and shut the fuck up and go away and we’ll and we’ll throw you like gay marriage or something. And that’s that’s what we get. We get to like starve and die and be evicted.

Nichole [00:16:11] But like we get gay marriage. Right? Maybe.

Callie [00:16:15] And they’ll do up the White House with rainbow lights.

Nichole [00:16:18] Yeah.

Callie [00:16:18] You know.

Nichole [00:16:19] Exactly. Exactly. Or we get abortion. Maybe, but not really for everyone. And they won’t codify it so that we don’t have to risk losing it again because that’s their sweet, sweet way of getting back in there, right? Like they- that’s the thing. Like that’s what I’m trying to tell people. So when they bring up something like abortion and the Supreme Court, it’s like, do you understand that, like the Democrats could have codified that into law so that we didn’t have to have this. But they don’t want it to be an issue that’s off the table. They actually intentionally keep it in play because it’s their way. They literally, the two parties distinguish themselves over like this one issue. Yeah. Maybe also climate change.

Nichole [00:17:04] But like, you know, it’s really more like, do we believe in it or not? But neither party is doing anything for it. And they’re both accelerating it with their corporate policies.

Nichole [00:17:15] So, yeah. And just, um, I also wanted to bring up the- because we didn’t talk about it when it happened- but like also Joe Biden’s treatment of Stacey Abrams.

Nichole [00:17:27] So I think was that on MSNBC?

Callie [00:17:32] I’m not sure.

Nichole [00:17:32] I forget. Yeah. Forget what network it was or what show it was, but.

Callie [00:17:36] They’re all the same, frankly.

Nichole [00:17:38] Girl preach. They had a so apparently Biden’s campaign set up. This this it wasn’t an interview.

Nichole [00:17:54] It wasn’t really a press conference either, but basically they set it up to have Stacey Abrams called to be on this news show with Biden and they made it this big deal. Like, I think even the news anchor didn’t know it was going to happen because he’s like, oh, like Biden wanted you to be here and like kind of teed it up that there is some big announcement. So like, clearly, everyone thought that Biden was going to make her the V.P. and then Biden just proceeds to like weirdly talk like basically pat her on the head.

Nichole [00:18:27] And be like. But you’re not the one.

Nichole [00:18:31] And you could see, like she litter, she acted, she didn’t know because you could see her face like falling as he kept talking and it’s starting to sink in that like he’s not. He’s basically telling her like she’s not going to be his pick. And it was so fucking bizarre. And so I was watching the Tim Black show, which I’d been getting more and more into. I really like watching his live streams because he has people call in and they like talk about their experiences or their thoughts on stuff. And I really love hearing from like all of these people.

Nichole [00:19:08] And so one caller was like, this is him. Like, this is a white man. Telling a black woman, like putting her in her place. Because she’s been all over the media, being very open about how she wants to be as V.P.. Basically doing like a public job interview, right?

Callie [00:19:29] Yeah.

Nichole [00:19:30] Like asking for it.

Nichole [00:19:31] And let me be clear, like I don’t have any love for Stacey Abrams. I don’t I don’t know if I feel bad for her, not on a personal level, me being empathetic it’s hard to not feel bad for her because it just was so like unnecessarily humiliating and embarrassing.

Callie [00:19:48] Yeah.

Nichole [00:19:50] But like, it abso- and I just think it ties into what we’re saying now and I think it’s really important to not overlook that.

Nichole [00:19:55] That was Biden telling this black woman like.

Nichole [00:19:59] You’re like I’m putting you in your place in front of everybody. Go sit down. And how just fucking like racist and disgusting that is.

Callie [00:20:09] And cruel.

Nichole [00:20:10] And cruel.

Callie [00:20:11] So cruel. He humiliate her to no reason. He didn’t need to do that. He could have just announced his pick. But yeah, he publicly humiliated her.

Nichole [00:20:24] And he hasn’t done that to anyone else. I mean, there’s been several people put up there for his V.P. pick.

Nichole [00:20:31] And I really think and we could say it’s just because she was being so, you know, aggressive about it. But like, I just don’t see how there’s not a racial element to that because like, Warren has also been pretty, you know, outspoken about how badly she wants to be the V.P. with her eyes gleaming, with the inner light of desperation.

Nichole [00:20:58] She’s like, please make it all my selling out worth it.

Nichole [00:21:04] I’ll do anything you want. Clearly, I have no morals. Yeah, but yeah, I just think I just don’t want us collectively to overlook his even Tim Black was like, oh fuck, I like hadn’t thought about that, but he’s like, you’re right. That definitely was that kind of situation of like, you know. So I just think that that’s an important piece here, too. Like Biden is so fucking entitled and it just seems like he’s on a tear right now that he’s like, I’m the one. You don’t have any other fucking choice. I can speak to you like you all are my like. Like I have some kind of ownership over you essentially and your vote. And he’s not even trying to hide any of it. And yet people are out here still trying to talk about how he’s like way better than Trump. And again, I say, how in what way? If you have we’re going into.

Nichole [00:22:00] We’ve seen with the Coronavirus in the United States that black folks have been hit black and indigenous people have been hit just like unbelievably statistically harder than white folks have. You know where we know anytime there’s an economic crisis that hits black, indigenous and Latinx folks way harder than it hits white people.

Nichole [00:22:22] And you have this guy coming in who just has absolute and complete disdain for anyone who isn’t like a rich white person. And you tried telling me how that doesn’t factor in to like what kind of president he’s going to be. Trump is a monster, but he like there are some things where he’s actually better than the Democrats. You know, and I’m not, again, not saying like I want him for a president. I absolutely do not. But I just think, like, it’s really, really disingenuous and honestly extremely dangerous to talk about how because people just say it. They’re like, he’s so much better, he’s so much better. And Trump is such a monster. But when you push him on, it’s like, well, what do you mean? And you can tell that they’ve just bought into. There’s literally been a choreographed media narrative to make Trump a monster because it benefits the Democrats for him to be just so like cartoonishly evil in the eyes of the American people. He’s not worse than Bush. I’m sorry. He’s not. And he’s not even worse than Obama in a lot of ways. He’s bad. And he’s he is the worse in certain ways that are unique to him. But overall, he’s not, quote unquote, the most dangerous president we’ve ever had.

Callie [00:23:39] Yeah.

Nichole [00:23:39] A lot of what’s causing- yes, he’s handled this terribly. Yes. He’s doing absolutely irresponsible, horrible, evil things like telling people to take drugs that actually don’t work, maybe even make it worse. And then are being taken away from people who need them for the conditions that they have. Things like that. That’s, you know, beyond denying. But we also have a Democratically controlled House who’s putting out bills that are harming us just as much as what Trump is doing. And we have neoliberal policies have been built up for the last four decades that are contributing to this. I mean, Trump didn’t create privatized health care. That’s not him. Does he support it? Yes. Although, I guess whatever, I don’t I can’t even wrap my head around his health care policies, but it’s just it’s just really. And I know we’ve talked about a million times, but it’s just like I can’t get over how like intellectually irresponsible people are being where they’re just literally making Trump this cartoon incarnation of the devil. And there’s just no analysis there. And then you have Biden out here just showing pure disdain for people who are dying at enormously increased rates and not just today, not just in a pandemic. I mean, we’re talking even like childbirth. You know, I think it’s called maternal mortality rates. But like, you know, people who die giving in or before or after childbirth like that is tremendously impacts black women.

Nichole [00:25:22] You know, poverty.

Nichole [00:25:25] Voting suppression. All of it. And you have a guy up here who’s literally saying, like, I literally look at you like you don’t matter.

Nichole [00:25:34] Don’t you dare ask me a question. Don’t you dare try to get on my staff. Don’t you dare try to step out of place. Right. I’m going to knock you back down.

Callie [00:25:44] Yeah.

Nichole [00:25:45] And we trust this guy to take better care of our country during a fucking crisis?

Nichole [00:25:52] It’s ridiculous to me.

Callie [00:25:53] Yeah, yeah, and I’ve been thinking a lot about.

Callie [00:25:59] The whole exis- that Trump is an existential threat, you know, to our country and specifically to our democracy.

Callie [00:26:06] And, you know, I have to admit, I bought into that, too, for a really long time. And I can understand and empathize with people who still feel that way because you just hear it so often. And he is very upfront about his love for authoritarian ideology. So it’s like I get it. You’re not making this up. But I’ve been thinking a lot about how. People feel like no matter how bad Biden is, that Trump Trump could represent like the end of America, right. The end of our democracy. But like we already I I finally came to a point this week where I was able to like put into words my thoughts on why that doesn’t sit with me anymore, why that’s not affecting me anymore and the way it did before and really like persuade me: Because we already don’t have a democracy.

Callie [00:27:01] We don’t and.

Callie [00:27:03] We vote, we show up. We give our money, we- we’re all a part of this big game of pretend. And if we do not have a democracy, we’ve talked about it many times before. We’ve talked about. I believe it was a Princeton study or Harvard, maybe? I can never remember which is bad because I bring it up all the time. But that study that shows that if we had a democracy, that the chart of how decisions are made, like what laws are passed, would be like basically at perfect diagonal line. Right. Of like the more people want something, the higher likelihood it is to pass. But what we have is a flat line that basically goes across at 30 percent. So there is a equal chance that something 0 percent of the people want passing as there is something a hundred percent of the people want it to pass.

Callie [00:28:02] So there’s like essentially no correlation with how much we the people want something versus what gets passed because our government has been captured by corporations, by big dollar interests.

Callie [00:28:17] So.

Callie [00:28:19] I guess like the idea to me now that voting for Biden is going to save our democracy just.

Callie [00:28:27] It just doesn’t really work for me anymore because we don’t really have one. And it’s about like not playing this game. It’s about taking kind of a last stand against the Democratic Party and being like, you are to blame for Trump, like someone like Trump should have never been able to win that election. If you hadn’t treated voters with the disdain that you do, if you hadn’t taken us for granted, you know, if you hadn’t been integral in making neoliberal policies that have just like carved out the wealth from, you know, the bottom 99 percent of the country for the last like several decades.

Callie [00:29:09] Like there is much to blame for him, maybe even more to blame for someone like Trump being in charge than even, you know, the Republicans or the people who voted for Trump.

Callie [00:29:21] And that probably sounds crazy to you, like I’m I’m not. Not you.

Callie [00:29:25] Nichole, but.

Nichole [00:29:27] Me?!

Callie [00:29:31] But it’s not to let the voters off the hook.

Callie [00:29:34] I mean, I have a really hard time with the people that like even could have cast their vote for him, even being as a as legitimately and, you know, righteously angry as they were at the system. I think there was a lot of like hatred.

Callie [00:29:48] And I’m I’m not saying that they didn’t do a terrible thing, but it just feels like if we send the message to the Democrats right now that even in the face of everything that’s happening, they can still treat us this way. I don’t know that there will really ever. Like that, we can come back from that. Like that to me is the existential threat. You know. Like in this time of crisis, where where leftist policies have never been as popular, you know, as they have been like Medicare for all like UBI, like climate change, like we are all so much more aware right now in this moment of crisis than we ever had before. And if we squander this, if we say that we just want things to return to normal because they’re uncomfortable, then like, I don’t know that we’ll ever have this leverage again.

Callie [00:30:43] We cannot allow someone like Biden who looks at us all and basically says, like, where are you going to go?

Callie [00:30:53] And we just go, you’re right. We’ll vote for you.

Callie [00:30:57] I I don’t I don’t know how we I don’t know how we do that. I don’t know how we square that, you know? I don’t know how someone who so willingly. Dismissive to our faces. To literally like vulnerable people, I mean, we’ve seen him tell union workers, we’ve seen him tell women we’ve seen him now say right to a black man’s face like you ain’t black if you still have any questions about voting for me and an all Charlemagne’s said was like, we have more questions. We want to have you back to talk about them. And he he feels like he doesn’t even need to answer questions. He’s just already owed the presidency. And you think you’re going to move that guy left. Do you think you’re going to be able to like exert any power over him once he’s in office?

Callie [00:31:52] I don’t think so.

Nichole [00:31:56] To your point, too: You’re going to save democracy with a guy who was maneuvered into position and literally doesn’t think he has to work to get your vote? That’s going to save democracy?!

Callie [00:32:07] Such a good point.

Callie [00:32:11] Yeah.

Nichole [00:32:11] Unbelievable.

Callie [00:32:13] Yeah. I’m really I’m really kind of upset by even what I would consider the pretty radical and progressive media shows that are also kind of taking this attitude of like. Yeah, but he won.

Callie [00:32:26] It’s like he didn’t win. First of all, like what, half the states or a little bit less than half the states have not even voted yet? And even those states that did there was. And this is not just me like crying foul or not being willing to accept the result. There was like documented cases of thousands upon thousands of votes not being counted or being flipped to the wrong person like there was actual like voter suppression and fraud in this election.

Callie [00:32:58] We were four times the acceptable rate of discrepancy between like the polls that they do after someone has voted. And like what the vote counts actually were four times the rate that the U.N. says is like acceptable.

Callie [00:33:17] That is not nothing.

Callie [00:33:19] So, no, I don’t accept that this is legitimate.

Nichole [00:33:24] No. And. Yeah. And it. We’ve talked about at length before, so I won’t go into it. But it’s like. Even what do you consider election fraud? What do you consider- because I would consider the most beloved ex-president that we have in modern history, for whatever reason, stepping in and literally telling people to drop out and who do endorse. And maneuver, you know, maneuvering all this stuff behind the scenes. I would definitely consider getting billions and billions of dollars in free like media advertising, as well as essentially getting billions of dollars in free like negative ads against your opponent, because that’s all that the the media either ignored Bernie or would publish negative things about him, which just helps all the other candidates.

Callie [00:34:21] Yeah.

Nichole [00:34:21] Like I consider that, you know, tampering with an election.

Callie [00:34:27] Yeah.

Nichole [00:34:28] So. Yeah. Just on like every conceivable scale like literal votes up to these, you know, kind of larger systemic like machinations like this was not a fair primary cycle in any sense of the word. And I agree like nothing that that came out of it is legitimate. Biden’s, you know, candidacy is not legitimate. And yeah to just say that like he’s the guy who’s gonna fuckin restore the soul of America or whatever fucking bullshit slogan he uses it- I mean, you’re one of the people who literally stripped the soul of our country out,.

Callie [00:35:06] Yeah.

Nichole [00:35:07] Debatable if we ever had one. Sure.

Nichole [00:35:10] But like.

Callie [00:35:11] Right.

Nichole [00:35:12] Definitely like actually went out of your way to to target certain groups and make things more nightmarish and difficult for people.

Nichole [00:35:23] And just again, I don’t want to like fear monger, but like our country is about to, like, burn to the fucking ground like everything that’s happened. That’s what this economist whose articles I read keep saying. He’s like, people don’t understand. Like we have now gotten to the point where literally we cannot pass these measures because we don’t have the money at the bottom to do it. People don’t have the money. Even if we raise taxes, like there’s not enough money with the working people to afford these programs, we would need the government and we would need the rich people to like. Give us that money and pay for these things and they’re not going to do it. And then the working people are not going to vote for it because they literally do not have it. He’s like, sure, we pay less in taxes in other countries, but we pay way more. He is talking about how like we pay more for food. We pay more for health care. We pay more for just the goods that we purchase. We pay more for housing. He’s like we pay out so much more, so much more that we have nothing and we’re all living in debt. And he’s like other countries for 50 years now, have been building their infrastructure so that they can. It’s like up and running and they can maintain it. Now, many of them are now falling to fascism as as are we. So we’re seeing those systems are starting to be dismantled or coming under attack. But he’s like but that’s why like the U.S. has spent the last 50 years doing the opposite. Know, we have not invested in roads, public transportation, education, health care systems, any of this stuff. So it’s not even about like making it available. It’s like we don’t even have the fucking infrastructure. And now he was saying we have like upwards of 80 percent of our population is probably gonna be like low income in the next several years. We don’t. We literally don’t have it to create it. So within a capitalist framework, there’s no way that this can happen. And to get out of the capitalist framework, we’re going to have to have some massive fucking revolution. And then you put a fucking ghoul like Joe Biden up there who literally had a direct hand in all of this. And then you try to tell us that he’s the one who’s gonna save us and make it better and get us back to what, the Obama era?

Nichole [00:37:51] What a fucking nightmare.

Nichole [00:37:54] Who is the Obama era good for besides bankers and big business?

Callie [00:37:59] Right.

Nichole [00:38:02] Now your average citizen, that’s for fucking sure.

Callie [00:38:05] Yeah. Not all the millions of people that were kicked out of their homes, that the Obama administration did nothing to help. Not all the people that are now working gig jobs because the idea of having an actual like well-paying, career oriented job is just does not exist anymore for the vast majority of people.

Nichole [00:38:31] Yeah.

Callie [00:38:31] I mean, we never came back from what happened in 2008. It looks like we did, but our country just runs on debt. You know, we’re all spending way above our means. We’re all like pretending that we can afford brunches and vacations and Airbnbs and Lyfts and all of that bullshit. But it’s.

Callie [00:38:54] It’s just all a big lie.

Nichole [00:38:58] Yeah.

Nichole [00:39:00] Yeah, this author is talking about how it all all linked to the most relevant article in the show notes I’m sorry, I don’t I don’t want to keep clicking because I know it gets picked up by the mic. But he was talking about how like. That’s part of it, too, like the U.S., we pay more for less.

Nichole [00:39:20] We pay more for like very cheap quality, bad things. He’s like like our good food is expensive and inaccessible. So we pay we pay more for like crappy food.

Nichole [00:39:33] You know, it’s just everything has been stripped away from us. And that’s why. And he was saying that’s why your average citizen cannot wrap their head around something like having like good food available to people or health care available to people because because they literally feel like I can’t even afford the shit that I have now.

Callie [00:39:53] Yeah.

Nichole [00:39:53] And they really cannot understand because that is not how our country works. So you kind of can’t blame them.

Callie [00:39:59] Right.

Nichole [00:40:01] We don’t do things for the good of the people. Right. Everything always has to cost more. So it’s it’s understandable to a point that they cannot wrap their heads around, like the fact that, like, we would just provide for people and that would be part of what your taxes like. That’s what your taxes are supposed to pay for.

Callie [00:40:18] Yeah.

Nichole [00:40:19] Or the fact that like we could bring down housing costs and that would immediately positively impact everyone, it would give us more of this extra cash to maybe put these systems in place.

Nichole [00:40:33] But but. You just people don’t they just think, oh, the housing market goes up and that’s just how it is. Or you have enough like landlords and property owners out there, like, well, I need those to like have my life. And it’s like, no. Like, no, you don’t. And like, I’m sorry, but that can’t be at the expense of the good of the like people.

Callie [00:40:53] Yeah. When it’s like how people think. Even even the people that are like pro now medicare for all, they like the idea of it and maybe they’re finally convinced that it would end up costing us less, or at least not more than what we’re paying now. Right. A lot of those same people would like sneer at the idea of just wiping student loan debt away from everyone. Right. They just think that that’s so like unnecessary. And it’s like, how could we possibly afford that? And they don’t see like, first of all, we absolutely can afford it. Second of all, like, do you not understand that forgiving those loans would then put money directly into the hands of the people that you need spending money? I don’t like that our economy runs on consumption, but it does. So if you want to fix the economy as it is now, you have to give people buying power. You have to put money in their hands so that they can go out to dinner and that they can buy shit on Amazon and that they can go to the store. And all of these things like that is what’s going to keep people employed. But if you’re crushed under it, like hundreds if not thousands of dollars of loan payments per month in student loan debt, which will never go away, you’ll never get ahead on.

Callie [00:42:14] I mean, even fucking Obama was joking when he was president that him and Michelle only had paid off their student loans, like I think like a year.

Callie [00:42:24] A couple years of him becoming the president like you know, obviously, now that wouldn’t be a problem because they’re both raking in the dough, but trading on the popularity of being a president.

Callie [00:42:39] But like you have people that are just stuck with loan debt.

Callie [00:42:45] We need them to be participating back in society. If people don’t have the money to spend, then that’s why all of our businesses fail. Right. Especially right now in a crisis when money’s so tight.

Callie [00:42:58] It’s like it’s not it’s not a gift, it’s not free money, it’s not to help lazy people. It’s to literally jumpstart the economy.

Callie [00:43:07] Like it’s actually what we need. Setting aside even just the ethics of like releasing people from these like predatory student loans, you know, I mean, it’s so frustrating. Like people don’t they don’t get it. And yeah, you’re right. That’s why people don’t think we can have any of this stuff because we already pay so much money. But what we pay isn’t real. We also outspend the next like 8, 7 or 8, I feel like the numbers always changing countries combined and military spending that is on necessary, we don’t need to be spending that much.

Nichole [00:43:49] Yeah.

Callie [00:43:49] That is money that could be used to like put money in the hands of people right now. Wipe off student debt to pay for Medicare for all.

Nichole [00:44:03] I know.

Callie [00:44:04] To actually create a real paycheck protection program like it just.

Nichole [00:44:10] Yeah.

Callie [00:44:12] But yeah. Joe fuckin Biden is going to like save the soul of our country and our democracy. I just I don’t I don’t see how. I really don’t see how. And again, I’m not saying Trump is a better choice. I loathe both of them equally. My point is just that we have made, Trump su- and I think what your point was, which is so perfectly made, we’ve made Trump such a boogey man that it allows us to overlook everything that the Democrats are doing that’s like shady as fuck, you know, and damaging. Like I won’t watch media anymore. That goes after Trump because I’m like, yeah, he’s garbage. We already know.

Callie [00:44:54] We already know.

Nichole [00:44:56] Mm hmm.

Callie [00:44:56] My point is, like, what I want to see is like pointing out all of the shit that the people I was supposed to trust and look up to are doing wrong so I can be better informed. But that’s not what you get on, like the liberal mainstream media. Right. And then for the conservative mainstream media, you get the opposite, you get them pointing out how bad the like fucking Democrats are. And as long as we have a system where there are just two parties and each party can just fully blame the other party for the problem, things will never get better. Because people aren’t informed about like the people on their side, all the shit that they’re doing wrong. Like, I won’t watch TYT anymore because all they do is fuckin talk about Trump and Cenk, fuckin that guy. Like, why is he just he’s blasting anyone who like has a problem with voting for Biden? You know, he is fully taken up the mantle of like he’s the Biden is the lesser of two evils. And Trump’s an existential threat and we have to get rid of him and all of this shit. And it’s like how how have you missed like everything that’s happened over the last five years, you know?

Nichole [00:46:11] I know. I put out a thing on Twitter. It’s the changed my mind meme, you know? Yeah. And I was like, Cenk Uyger is the Joe Biden of progressive media. Change my mind. And I like retweeted his tweet where he’s scolding everyone about not voting for Biden.

Callie [00:46:32] Yeah.

Nichole [00:46:33] But it’s fuckin true. And like, you have a problematic past. You have this like super entitled, masculine like approach to everything where you just, like, yells and talks over everybody.

Nichole [00:46:44] And I’m like, and the fact that you’re out here and this is what you’re telling people makes me have no respect for your political analysis like at all, because there’s no nuance. It’s not even like he’s like, look, you know, I get it. They’re both fucking terrible. And like, these are all the systemic things, but.

Nichole [00:47:03] I don’t know. Here’s like one reason I have that I. I feel.

Nichole [00:47:08] But even that like that still doesn’t mean you should be out here shaming people for what they do with their vote or not encouraging other options.

Nichole [00:47:16] It just I just think he’s a fucking clown, honestly. And the way he’s been acting lately, it’s like, are you auditioning for CNN or something like he’s being such a fucking normie. He keeps like browbeating his listeners for money during a fucking pandemic. And just generally, even before the pandemic hit, it was just it’s like you’re literally reporting on how bad everything is. And all you do is like every five seconds is asked for money. And anytime he’s on the show, it’s like one giant commercial for TYT instead of like actual reporting. So yeah, that guy just needs to fucking go. I like have nothing to do with him. You know, there’s people from TYT that I still really like, but I just can’t support that. I can’t support him. And he’s another of these fake motherfuckers who, like, you know, basically tried to prevent union from forming.

Nichole [00:48:11] So it’s like, get out of here with your fake progressive ass. Like, I don’t even know.

Nichole [00:48:14] He’s one who I think is co-opted the progressive label, which makes me like not want to use it anymore because it’s like, in what way are you progressive?

Nichole [00:48:22] Yeah. In what way? Like your pro-capitalist antiunion. Okay. Yeah, you fuckin poser. You get the fuck out of here.

Callie [00:48:30] It’s just going to say I have a hard time with anyone being like pro-capitalist who’s progressive. It’s like then you’re a liberal then like, right. That is by definition a liberal position. Like liberal means like you essentially want to keep everything the same. You want to make minor improvements. Most particularly culturally. But you want to keep things the same. Like how how do you square being like pro-capitalist with being, you know, quote unquote, progressive? It’s like those two things do not go together. You can’t actually have real change that like fundamentally helps people with capitalism still in place. Like, you just literally cannot.

Nichole [00:49:12] Mm hmm.

Callie [00:49:12] You know, so.

Nichole [00:49:14] Yeah.

Nichole [00:49:15] And that’s what I mean is like I just can’t even respect your.

Nichole [00:49:20] Like analysis?

Callie [00:49:21] Yeah. Yeah. So.

Callie [00:49:27] T.L. didn’t listen Biden’s trash. Once again, he’s showing himself to be a white supremacist.

Callie [00:49:38] How many more examples it’s going to take?

Nichole [00:49:42] I know.

Callie [00:49:43] And again, the Democrats are doing this to you. They could just replace snap their fingers and replace him tomorrow. And the fact that they have won’t should tell you everything that you need to know about their party. They literally do not care. They could run someone better and they just do not care. They won’t do it. No. So fuck em, they’ll go down with the ship.

Nichole [00:50:04] Yeah. They got their goal.

Nichole [00:50:06] You know, he’ll do what they want. And if Trump gets in there, still good, Yeah, it helps summaries tons of money because then they’re fighting the enemy, you know, and they get to further indoctrinate the American people with skewed media. And and, you know, like they’re supporting him behind the scenes anyway. So.

Nichole [00:50:31] It just helps, so there, you know. He’ll get stuff done that they’ll support. And then they’ll be able to blame it on him.

Nichole [00:50:38] Yeah. And get away with doing shit that like they you shouldn’t be doing.

Callie [00:50:43] Yeah.

Nichole [00:50:46] It’s how like I saw on Twitter, they were saying that you can track every one of Pelosi’s like big moments of resistance.

Nichole [00:50:55] Please hear the heavy air quotes that I’m throwing down.

Nichole [00:51:03] You can track like every single one to like when she gives him something that he wants, so she’ll make some, like public scene, but then she’ll give him like what he wants or just give him stuff like they-

Callie [00:51:15] Like to provide cover for herself.

Nichole [00:51:18] Yeah.

Callie [00:51:18] Yeah.

Nichole [00:51:19] Yeah. Like they gave him shoot. I’d have to look it up. I think they gave him like some kind of military funding or something. When she did like the sarcastic clap or whatever, and they’re just like, so.

Nichole [00:51:37] You know, like you’re, you know, you’re performing these acts of resistance, but then you’re giving him the ability to like go bomb other countries even more than we have been. OK.

Callie [00:51:47] But Nichole, she looks real bad ass in her red knee length coat, putting on sunglasses, walking away from the White House.

Callie [00:51:58] So she must’ve hashtag resisted. I just can’t get that fucking name out of my head.

Callie [00:52:06] It’s like her walking away with like her fuckin coat and how people were like that red coat. She’s such a bad ass. Look at her.

Callie [00:52:13] And it’s like she gave him money for his border wall like this.

Callie [00:52:23] Why are you talking about?!

Nichole [00:52:25] Exactly.

Callie [00:52:27] And all those other fucking Democrats that were like terms an existential threat. We must defeat him.

Callie [00:52:33] And then he fuckin like they all literally gave him a standing ovation at that State of the Union address where he talked about how, like, we’re a capitalist nation and we’ll always be like even fucking Warren and gave him a standing ovation.

Nichole [00:52:51] Well, you know, Callie, she’s a capitalist. To her very bones.

Callie [00:52:55] Oh, I know.

Callie [00:52:58] But it’s like these are the people that you think like they talk about him being the threat. Right. As if he were like Hitler. And it’s like they just they gave him a standing ovation.

Nichole [00:53:12] Right.

Callie [00:53:13] How?

Callie [00:53:17] I don’t even have to finish that sentence. That’s just self-explanatory.

Nichole [00:53:22] It’s all performance.

Callie [00:53:23] Yeah, exactly.

Nichole [00:53:25] It’s all theater.

Callie [00:53:29] And I, for one, am leaving the show.

Nichole [00:53:33] Oh, OK. Are you going to dramatically stand up slowly and pointedly walk out?

Callie [00:53:42] Yes.

Callie [00:53:44] Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m going to do. And that’s all we should all do. Change our registration. Dem exit. And just be fucking done with that. And if you’re worried about the things like having Trump for another four years will be rough. But then we just organize. Right. Look, if you’re worried about abortion being taken away, then start fucking stocking up on the abortion pill. And let’s create underground networks. For legal reasons, this is a joke. Where where we just like help provide for each other. You mean create mutual aid networks, create things that don’t rely on these fucking people to protect you? Because I have news for you. Neither party is.

Nichole [00:54:29] Yeah.

Nichole [00:54:30] And organize protests in mass effective protests. And our demand is not access. Yeah. It’s not even rights. It’s to get it put into fucking law.

Callie [00:54:43] Yes bitch.

Nichole [00:54:44] Nothing less than that.

Callie [00:54:46] Yeah.

Nichole [00:54:47] And get- take that football away from them. They can’t toss it back and forth anymore. They can’t distract us with it. We have that now as a right, as a law.

Callie [00:54:57] Yeah. How many decades has Roe v. Wade been into effect? And we still don’t have like an actual law, like we don’t have like an amendment protecting bodily autonomy or anything like that. And it’s like a love how you said that it’s exactly the keep it in place that they can dangle it over us, you know, like this sword that’s just like common for us, that if we ever choose to, like, not put up with their bullshit. And I’m just I’m done with their threats.

Nichole [00:55:30] Yeah, I started reading an article that I haven’t finished yet, but is talking about how. They used to like define the parties over slavery and then like Jim Crow laws and things like that.

Nichole [00:55:46] And then when that became politically not as politically acceptable.

Nichole [00:55:53] They say just switched it to abortion. This whole thing is just a farce. And then I know the Jane Rowe documentary is out, I think on Hulu, but it details how, like she’s the Roe from Roe v. Wade, where, you know, the abortion case that basically set this all off and what the right wing people did is they ended up.

Nichole [00:56:22] Bribing her to switch sides and then be like anti-abortion afterwards.

Nichole [00:56:29] But it shows that she didn’t believe it. She just was a poor woman who was, you know, struggling and they were like throwing money at her. And I think she also struggled with addiction. And so she took it. And they were just literally tell her what to say. And she’s like fine I’ll say it.

Callie [00:56:44] It wasn’t this whole like a deathbed confession that that’s when it finally came out. And I haven’t watched it yet, but that’s what I’ve been reading a lot on the Internet, that it came out like on her deathbed, that she was like, I didn’t actually believe that. I just like took money to switch sides.

Nichole [00:57:02] Yeah. And it just yeah. It just shows you that like.

Nichole [00:57:09] This whole thing is fake and a lot of it still, even when it doesn’t seem like it ties back to racism and slavery. It does. Yeah. Because these Christians, you know, and these like conservatives, that’s what they still wanted, but they couldn’t like be so open about it. So they and they’ve escalated Christianity in this country in order to do so as well. Like, I don’t know if people in other countries understand. And even people here especially, I don’t think understand like this is new.

Nichole [00:57:44] This fervor that we have is new. This isn’t because we always tend to think like, oh, and people like in older times, people were more religious, but it’s actually not true. Like we’re more religious now than we ever have been. And that was on purpose. It’s a way to divide. And when you have someone who has like a religious belief in this kind of things, this is why you can have people like unironically saying that for me to have abortion rights.

Nichole [00:58:15] Is a genocide for their culture, even that has nothing to do with them, but they believe it.

Nichole [00:58:22] That’s where they’ve gotten is that they see this whole thing right.

Nichole [00:58:26] People of color, black folks, women, feminists, abortion, all this stuff. Liberal policy is an attack on their right to like how they want to live on their culture, etc., etc. And this is all by design.

Callie [00:58:44] Yeah.

Nichole [00:58:45] And this is where you get people where logic has gone out the window like we can’t reach these people through like a logical conversation about like Medicare for all. All they fucking care about is abortion. Like we can’t have Medicare for all. If someone could get an abortion with it. Right, like that’s all. Or trans rights or anything like that. And that’s and it’s been so effective. And then also Christianity goes hand-in-hand with fascism, this is yet another way that we’re being escalated to fascism in this country as well. You have between neo liberalism and the Christianity has just been accelerating the shit out of our country and we’re about to fucking explode.

Callie [00:59:30] Yeah, people really don’t.

Callie [00:59:34] Know. And I don’t blame them because this history is like kept from us. But yeah, there was actually a very clear shift where unfortunately very smart strategists in the Conservative Party started looking around and realizing that they were losing. And were going to keep losing. Right. That the country was shifting away towards their value systems. And back in like the 50s and 60s, you didn’t like religion, didn’t really religious values. Christian values weren’t really a part of the Conservative Party. They weren’t really part of the Republican Party. But you had these strategists look around and seeing like we need to start bringing in these like, quote unquote, family values, these traditional values. Right. And try to capture voters and keep them in this party. It’s like you said, a relatively new phenomenon that like our our politics are so divided. It really did used to be a lot more about economics than it is now. And that’s why you get a lot of people who still mistakenly say that they may be Republican because they are in favor of small government and economic issues. Right. It’s it’s not really accurate anymore, but that is how it used to be with the addition, obviously, that racism and slavery and Jim Crow was a big part of it as well. You know, so I don’t want to, like downplay that.

Callie [01:01:03] That was a huge factor, especially in the south. But yeah, it was it was on purpose.

Callie [01:01:10] And the Koch brothers especially have had a big hand in seeing like, hey, the country is moving away from us. We need to figure out a way to, like, retain control. And that’s why even though the vast majority of progressive social issues are popular amongst voters, why we don’t actually have them in law, the vast majority of people are in favor of pro choice. The vast majority of people are in favor of Medicare for all. They’re in favor of gay marriage. They’re in favor of all of these things. And yet we don’t have them. And it’s all on purpose.

Nichole [01:01:48] Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Callie [01:01:51] It’s just it is it is really upsetting because it’s like how do you reach someone who, like, knows that they’re voting against their own interests but will only vote based on like abortion or whatever?

Callie [01:02:04] You know?

Nichole [01:02:05] I know.

Callie [01:02:06] And it’s and there are so many other things, too, that come come into that because it’s our education system, too. That’s very political, because people were not taught real science. If we had people that were really taught what abortion is like, I don’t I think there are still a small group that would still be like morally against it, but it wouldn’t be as many people as there are now.

Callie [01:02:32] But you have all this like bad science floating around, making it seem like it’s just.

Callie [01:02:39] And the whole climate change thing, they’re just they made us dumber on purpose. Right. Like there are all of these factors that play all these systems that are keeping this knowledge from us, that are keeping us systemically down and keeping us fighting with each other over issues that like probably wouldn’t matter if we were like well educated and also not like starved and forced into a competitive system for no reason.

Nichole [01:03:08] Yeah, I posted something on Instagram and someone sighs So someone came on and was just saying all this stuff and other people were like, what are you even talking about? But like bas- they kept calling the pandemic a fauxdemic or a fakedemic and know someone else was like, what are you fucking-?

Nichole [01:03:33] Why do you keep saying that? What is that? And they were like, Oh, it’s like fake like the the death toll has been greatly inflated and there’s all these false positive tests that they’ve done. So it’s like not real. And I and I wrote back and I was like, okay, over 90000 people. I think it’s up to 100000 now. I’m like, over ninety thousand people have died.

Nichole [01:03:58] That is true. So like.

Nichole [01:04:02] I was just like, where?

Nichole [01:04:03] Like that is because they were doing the thing, too, where it’s like, oh, 98 percent of people survive, but it’s like 2 percent death rate is actually extremely high, especially for something that is so incredibly contagious. Like how did people not get that? What do you think like an actual death rate is supposed to be then, like 50 percent? Like, do you understand that the world would be dead?

Callie [01:04:27] Right.

Nichole [01:04:28] Like like 2 percent is actually incredibly high. So anyway, I was like.

Nichole [01:04:34] I was like, even by your numbers, like 2 percent’s incredibly high. I’m like, we’ve had ninety thousand people, you know. Blah blah blah. And they wrote back and were like, those those are people who died of the flu with like the little like I gotcha emoji face, you know, the one that’s like looking sideways, the smug smirky look.

Nichole [01:04:56] And I was like.

Nichole [01:04:58] And I wrote back and I said. So if the flu is killing that many people, then the solution would be the same that we would shelter in place.

Nichole [01:05:10] And one might even call it a pandemic.

Nichole [01:05:16] Right?

Callie [01:05:17] Yeah.

Nichole [01:05:18] Like these.

Nichole [01:05:18] But that’s to your point. Yeah, like that’s how people are doing math on these things and that’s how their science works, is that they actually think that it’s okay for the flu.

Callie [01:05:28] Yeah.

Nichole [01:05:29] Combined with Coronavirus to kill two percent of the people that it infects, but not see that as a pandemic equally requiring the same shelter in place precautions.

Callie [01:05:41] Yeah.

Nichole [01:05:43] Oh, it’s the flu. Oh. Let everyone out then. That’s fine!

Callie [01:05:48] Right.

Nichole [01:05:49] Even though it’s the same rate of people dying and it’s still extremely contagious, like I’ve said this before. But flu season always scares the shit out of me. It’s very dangerous for me. And I’m like, I wish we could shelter in place every flu season that would help me out a lot. So just the fact that it’s like or you know, and just also this whole capitalism is a death cult mentality of like, you know, I’ve seen people who are like seven thousand people die every day or there’s some statistic like that.

Nichole [01:06:17] So like, who cares that like three thousand more are dying every day and it’s like.

Nichole [01:06:22] Why?

Nichole [01:06:24] Why is that the measurement that we’re using, like why is that the logic that you’re using is that we should just shouldn’t care because people are already dying of preventable shit all the time.

Callie [01:06:35] Yeah.

Nichole [01:06:36] And I read that like it’s they’re not sure but that up to 90 percent of the people who have died in the US could have been prevented.

Callie [01:06:43] Yeah.

Nichole [01:06:46] So it’s that, too. It’s just it’s just all of it. But you’re right. You get these people who are just fed these like soundbites and they.

Nichole [01:06:54] Don’t have proper education around things and are really invested in this like very particular world view. And so they just don’t get it. They just don’t get it. And then at this point, it just really feels like there’s no way to get through to them.

Callie [01:07:10] Yeah.

Nichole [01:07:11] Like sometimes people come back from that. But it’s usually some very personal story as to like why like I saw one guy posting on had there some article that he wrote and he was like, I didn’t believe in this. And then I got Coronavirus and my wife did too. And like, it’s real and like, please. And it’s like, okay. But like, most people are just gonna be like, that’s fucking fake or that’s a plant, you know?

Nichole [01:07:35] So it’s like we can’t wait. And even some people who get it, you know, that they’re just gonna find they’re just gonna say it was the flu or they’re gonna they’re just gonna find some way to like dismiss their even their own experience.

Nichole [01:07:45] Like, I honestly think we’ve gotten to the point in this country where people could have family members die from this and still find a way to like brush it aside.

Nichole [01:07:55] What do you do with that?

Callie [01:07:56] Yeah.

Nichole [01:07:58] What the fuck do you do with that?

Callie [01:08:00] Well we called this weeks ago and I know we weren’t the only ones, obviously a lot of people said this, but the fact that these shelter in place orders worked and our death rates not like ninety thousand one hundred thousand people is a lot of people, but it’s not like millions. Right. And so because our steps actually worked. It reinforces for people that this is like fake or that it’s not a big deal. And it’s like so deeply upsetting as it’s like if we hadn’t done anything, it would be millions. Like our country would literally fall like you. You can not have a system where that many people- like our hospitals and medical centers would have been immediately overwhelmed. You literally would have had like people dying in their homes with nobody able to come get the bodies. I mean, you already saw that in New York. Right. Like just people dying and nowhere to no one to get them, no place to put them or they’re in like refrigerated trucks and ice rinks. Like how fucking gruesome. Right. So it’s it is just incredibly, incredibly frustrating because it’s like and I read this thing the other day that was saying we’ve never had a pandemic where the second wave wasn’t worse than the first. And it’s probably because partially that anything you do in the first wave makes people convinced that it’s not that big of a deal. And then they get careless and then a second wave happens. And like you even have Trump now talking about how like if there is a second wave, not gonna do quarantines and shelter in place orders and it’s like that’s. What would you do with that? That is so bad.

Callie [01:09:50] You know.

Nichole [01:09:52] It’s so bad and our and our country hasn’t given us just the economic support to even get through this.

Callie [01:10:00] Yeah.

Nichole [01:10:01] And then the second wave is going to be worse.

Callie [01:10:04] Yeah. Way worse.

Nichole [01:10:07] We’re not probably going to. I can’t imagine we would get through it and not have shelter in place orders that would just be like hopefully. I don’t even know whatever. We’ll see what happens. But. Yeah.

Nichole [01:10:21] It’s just we already weren’t able to get them to do anything for us. And then we’re gonna go into this already weakened. People are gonna be evicted. This like are getting evicted now and don’t have jobs and the supplemented unemployment insurance is going to end and everything else.

Nichole [01:10:40] And then we’re gonna go into this worse off than we went into the first wave, just like not even the like you’re saying the precautions and stuff and people taking less seriously. But like just literally like your status in life is gonna be worse going into it. You’re gonna be more vulnerable.

Callie [01:10:58] Yeah.

Nichole [01:10:59] Yeah.

Nichole [01:11:04] I am just going to be in my house for.

Nichole [01:11:09] Another year or two should be safe.

Callie [01:11:12] It just feels so like doom and gloom.

Callie [01:11:15] And I don’t get any pleasure out of saying this, and I am I honestly I’m not doing it to, like scare anyone, but I really do feel like the only way forward is if we just tell the truth. Right. And like we all just try to be. Have our eyes open and be honest. But it really just does feel like this country is a failed state and people just don’t know it yet. You know, because like capitalism is able to put up this like veneer that everything’s fine, you know, because people can like go to Starbucks and get an expensive latte and like have shit ordered to deliver to their house or the Amazon that they don’t see that there is like.

Callie [01:11:57] It’s a fake front, like there’s nothing behind it, like it’s just all a house of cards.

Nichole [01:12:04] Yeah.

Callie [01:12:04] You know, that’s like tumbling down and has already crumbled in certain places and we’re just really fucked.

Nichole [01:12:13] Yeah, we’re totally fucked, and that’s why I like laughs It’s just I wish I could draw because I kind of like that dog in the house of fire, you know, like sipping coffee. I feel like. You could like replace the coffee with like voting for Biden and just being like, this is fine.

Nichole [01:12:35] Yeah. You mean like like where we’re sitting here having these arguments? Well, there’s literally a pandemic. There’s literally a greater depression headed our way. Literally. Climate change about’s like like mama earth is like y’all fuckers.

Nichole [01:12:51] Are about to go.

Nichole [01:12:53] Well, like I told you to clean up your room. You haven’t done it.

Nichole [01:13:00] The deadline is looming. You know, like all this shit and we’re sitting here arguing over Biden versus Trump.

Nichole [01:13:06] It’s so fucking ridiculous. It’s so ridiculous.

Callie [01:13:13] Yeah.

Nichole [01:13:14] It it’s like comical, except that it’s real life and like our lives are actually going to end.

Callie [01:13:21] Right.

Nichole [01:13:21] So you can’t really laugh at it. But like. Otherwise it’s like it’s satire.

Callie [01:13:25] It is.

Callie [01:13:26] Yeah.

Callie [01:13:31] It’s like we’re were driving off of a cliff and Biden is just like a nicer car to drive in and maybe the speed is like slightly slower, you know.

Nichole [01:13:46] Yeah.

Callie [01:13:49] He’s not going to fix anything. He’s not going to make anything better. We’re still headed for like he’s. He’s not going to put social programs in place to actually help people. We know that because we’ve seen him do it in the past. Right. Just like spit in people’s faces when there’s an economic catastrophe. And even if we get through this relatively okay, putting heavy emphasis on the air quotes there, he’s still not going to do anything about climate change.

Callie [01:14:20] So it’s like-.

Nichole [01:14:21] It’s it’s like driving over the cliff in a Prius instead of a Ford F-150.

Callie [01:14:26] Yes. Oh, my god, yes!

Nichole [01:14:31] Like, that’s cute that you have your little hipster car. But like, we’re still going over a fucking cliff.

Nichole [01:14:39] Someone on uh.

Callie [01:14:40] It has a co-exist sticker on it so you feel really good about being in it because like everyone is being like accepted and acknowledged.

Callie [01:14:49] It’s like, oh, good. That really makes you feel better about like falling into laughs.

Nichole [01:14:57] Yeah. Into oblivion. Yeah.

Nichole [01:15:02] I think it was someone on Twitter somewhere. I saw they posted that like. We literally currently right now are doing everything that individuals could do to reverse climate change. And like, it’s not being reversed. So like, clearly it’s not up to like individuals because they’re like, we stop traveling, right? We’re not driving our cars as much like we’re just doing all these things where, like, our carbon footprints are basically as low as they could conceivably be and like our modern society. And they’re like so clearly it’s not us as individuals who are doing this shit.

Callie [01:15:41] Wow. That’s a really.

Callie [01:15:46] Good slash, uncomfortable point. I hadn’t thought about that.

Nichole [01:15:50] Yeah.

Nichole [01:15:52] It is uncomfortable and we are seeing like some environmental healing happening in certain areas, although I’ve heard that some of it’s overreported, like exaggerated.

Nichole [01:16:02] But.

Callie [01:16:04] Like all those means of like the dolphins showing back up in the fuck in Venice Canal or whatever, they’re like the earth is healing. And it’s like or like cartoon animals. People are drawing them to make fun of people for falling for all that shit.

Nichole [01:16:20] Yeah, exactly.

Callie [01:16:21] I fell for some of it in the beginning. I’m not going to lie. I was like, oh, really cool.

Callie [01:16:25] And then people are like, no, that’s not real. And I was like, oh. Check your sources!

Nichole [01:16:33] Yeah, exactly.

Nichole [01:16:35] But yeah, it’s like, you know, Callie and I’ve been saying it for years that. Like, it’s not it’s not about your plastic straws. It’s not about your how long of a shower you take or anything like that.

Nichole [01:16:49] You know, again, show solidarity and like practice doing those things too, like practice using less and being conscious about how you do things. But like, it is like the fucking military and the transportation industry and animal agriculture. Like, those are the things that are destroying the planet. The fracking. All of this other shit like fish, like industrial fishing. These are the things that are destroying our planet. It’s not it’s not really our individual choices. And it’s also kind of false. You know, this could be a whole thing that we’ve already gotten into, but that’s not really like our individual choices are often driven by the options that are given to us, by advertising that are exposed to and things like that. So, yes, again, as activists. I think it’s important to step forward and do symbolic things to opt out of that cycle and say, like, I know better, I’ve educated myself, I’m not going to participate in this, but that doesn’t make systemic structural change. And you’re and you’re never going to overcome how many people are unaware and are and are making the choices that they’re basically told to make and also how many people they don’t actually really have other choices that they can make. Yeah, that’s why as vegans, we do not advocate for people out here pushing veganism on other people because there are so many people who do not have access to vegan food or just don’t have a lot of choice over the food that they’re consuming in the first place. So it’s it’s not really like like focusing on the consumption part. The the eating part of veganism is not actually effective activism whatsoever, focusing on the concept of animal liberation. On the other hand, is very effective. And then people can take that concept and apply it to their own life in a way that works for them. And that’s much more effective. So, yeah, it’s just in the end and really symbolically that’s the same thing that’s being done with our vote, right. We’re being shamed into thinking our vote has all of this power that we have to use it responsibly. And yet when we see how the system actually works, our vote doesn’t do shit. But it’s a way to individualize these these larger issues so we don’t actually go burn down the systems that are doing the harm in the first place.

Callie [01:19:13] Yeah.

Nichole [01:19:14] It’s much easier to yell at someone at a bar over plastic straws than it is to like tackle the fishing industry that’s leaving giant nets and equipment in the oceans. That is the much bigger problem.

Nichole [01:19:28] Or our use of plastics in general that are given to us where we can’t afford things that are not made out of plastic or options that are not made out of plastic or no longer available to us.

Callie [01:19:40] Yeah.

Callie [01:19:44] Yeah, it’s it’s really nuanced.

Callie [01:19:47] Mix of like.

Callie [01:19:50] Personal choices obviously do matter, but they don’t help her in the way that people like say that they do, you know.

Nichole [01:19:57] Yeah, yeah, they’re still important.

Nichole [01:20:00] But I just think it’s important to realize that they’re they’re mostly symbolic and like preparatory and that’s word. But but they’re mostly moving us to be in a mindset and have the ability to think and behave in a different way, which sets us up for creating something new that isn’t as consumptive, but they’re not actually making structural change.

Callie [01:20:24] Yeah.

Nichole [01:20:25] And that’s really important. And it’s just really important. Understand? Meatanomics covers this really well.

Nichole [01:20:30] It’s a book that I always recommend, but they talk about the checkoff programs and how like it’s not true that demand for animal products drives animal product production. It’s actually the other way around. The more animal products that are produced, the more of a demand is is created by the government and by these these companies. And then they just offset like they spend billions of dollars infiltrating other countries and promoting like other countries don’t have high animal consumption. And we’ve seen like they’ve actually raised that animal consumption of other countries because they’re like, oh, if people are going to eat it here, then we’ll just make them eat it somewhere else. Is this the same thing they do with cigarettes like cigarette companies are still rich, hugely profitable because they’ve just managed to infiltrate other countries that have GDC (I meant GDP!) and therefore can’t protect themselves. Like some of these cigarette companies have a higher GDC than the entire country that they’re that they’re getting into. And so they have things or they like get the laws to be passed or they can have cigarette, um, cigarette uh like vending machines basically next to schools, you know? So anyway, I just.

Nichole [01:21:50] Yeah.

Nichole [01:21:51] Too long didn’t listen.

Nichole [01:21:53] Cap- capitalism sucks, we’re falling into fascism and we’re in for a tough time. And we need to like see how things actually work. And talk about the truth of things and stop getting tied down in these ridiculous arguments about stuff that doesn’t really, truly actually matter when we’re looking at like the long term ramifications and our future.

Nichole [01:22:23] So Callie.

Callie [01:22:25] Yes.

Nichole [01:22:27] Why don’t cannibals eat clowns?

Callie [01:22:32] I don’t know.

Nichole [01:22:34] Do you not know or do you? Do you remember?

Callie [01:22:38] I really don’t remember, actually.

Nichole [01:22:41] Okay, good. You can hate it. A new.

Nichole [01:22:46] Because they taste funny.

Callie [01:22:52] Yeah, I did not remember that.

Nichole [01:22:54] If I had a sound effect, I do the the clown horn right now.

Callie [01:23:00] Well, thank goodness you don’t both laugh.

Callie [01:23:06] It’s like 5 years and you’re still like one of these days I’ll have sound effects and I’m like, oh, god.

Nichole [01:23:14] Yeah, I know, cause you’d have to put them in.

Nichole [01:23:18] And you’re not going to do that. Or I’d have to have them like hold up on my computer or phone and like hold them up to the mic.

Callie [01:23:24] Yeah.

Nichole [01:23:25] Which probably wouldn’t sound right, but it’d still be funny.

Nichole [01:23:29] But now that we’re social distancing. We’re like Skyping on my phone. Yeah. And it’s all set up and I can’t. Yeah. So you’re getting away with it for now. But someday.

Callie [01:23:44] Goodness gracious.

Nichole [01:23:47] So we already talked about The Platform. And then we lost our audio.

Nichole [01:23:55] And so now we need to talk about it again. But we’re kind of like over it.

Callie [01:24:02] I was telling Nichole it’s like for any other like creative types or anyone who, like, you know, writes or journals or whatever does any form of art.

Callie [01:24:13] It’s like when you have this thing in you that you like really want to, like, express. And then once you do, you’re like, oh, like, that’s now gone. Like, I’ve let it go. And it’s floated out into space and it feels some of our topics we obviously don’t feel that way about when we come back to you time and time again, like we will never feel that way about capitalism. It’s always gonna be a thing that we’re burning with rage.

Nichole [01:24:38] It’s a parasite that we can’t expel.

Callie [01:24:42] But yeah, this topic like we’re both so excited to talk about. And then we did like a two and a half hour episode and then lost the audio.

Callie [01:24:50] And then we were both like, well, it’s already gone.

Callie [01:24:57] Yeah. We’ve already let it out, let it go.

Callie [01:24:59] And yeah, it is. So this will probably be a paired down discussion of the platform is what we’re trying to say.

Nichole [01:25:09] Yeah. Which is probably good because I don’t know how many people actually ended up watching it. It’s hard.

Callie [01:25:15] Yeah.

Nichole [01:25:16] I felt like it had blown up because I had several people ask me if I had watched it. So I guess they gave me an inflated sense of like how popular it was.

Nichole [01:25:27] But then any social media posts I’ve done about it have gotten crickets. So I’m like, oh, maybe this isn’t sweeping the nation the way I thought it was.

Callie [01:25:41] Sweeping the nation?! laughs Oh my God.

Nichole [01:25:43] This is a Spanish movie that’s on Netflix.

Nichole [01:25:46] And it’s a really good movie, but it’s an incredibly brutal, graphic, violent movie. And for those who haven’t seen it, a very quick recap of what it is. And we start off with-.

Callie [01:26:03] Kidding!

Callie [01:26:06] Nichole and I thought it would be a little funny to like splice in a short, very short, clip of what her audio sounded like on the episode that we lost. So that is what, two and a half hours of our last precious episode was where we originally talked about The Platform. But then for some weird reason that we still don’t know why and how it happened, Nichole had a robot alien voice and obviously we couldn’t subject you all to two plus hours of that. All right. Back to the real discussion.

Nichole [01:26:46] The platform is a Spanish film produced by Netflix. It’s very brutal and gruesome, but it essentially is a critique of, you know, I guess capitalism, classism, but also is kind of critiquing. I would say is also kind of critiquing socialism and communism in the sense that what it’s essentially really looking at is human nature. And if people are able to overcome the systems that they’re in to work together and, you know, build something better. Very quick recap. There is essentially this.

Nichole [01:27:29] Structure called the pit that people go into. And served time in and the pit puts two people per floor.

Nichole [01:27:40] There’s at first we don’t know how many floors down it goes. And at floors zero, there’s a staff, a kitchen staff who makes this huge banquet table full of food and the food gets lowered down on a platform that goes through the middle of the pit. It stops at every floor for two minutes so that the people on that floor can eat off of it. And then it continues its journey down. We learn early on that the people on the higher floors, you know, just overconsume.

Nichole [01:28:16] Food from the table. They intentionally wreck food on the table like they’ll jump on the table and step on food and kind of throw it all around. And that once you hit a certain floor level, there’s just never any food. So people on the lower floors starve and have to resort to brutal things to survive.

Nichole [01:28:41] And there’s really no rules in the pit besides the fact that you have two minutes to eat and that you can’t keep any of the food off the table. So you can’t grab something and save it for later or else you’ll be either frozen or heated to death in your on your floor.

Nichole [01:28:58] So that’s high level recap if you haven’t seen the movie. I don’t wanna go too much into the particulars. I’m going to we’re just going to talk about it. And hopefully that works for everybody. So where do we want to start? What’s our first? I think we just have a few like key takeaways from the film that we’ll just talk about, like themes that we we there agreed with or didn’t agree with. Overall, we do recommend the movie if you can stomach such things, it has like cannibalism in it and a lot of physical violence and gross food stuff which I fucking hate, but it is really beautifully filmed and extremely well written and well acted. It’s only an hour and a half and it’s like I think it’s even just like an hour and twenty five minutes or something, but it’s like a tight, tightly filmed, tightly scripted movie that like goes by. It’s very dense in a good way. Yeah. But it just I do I do highly recommend the movie if those are things that you can watch.

Callie [01:30:00] Yeah, I do too.

Callie [01:30:01] It is. It just really does stay with you. And it’s just it sucks you in and it is so beautifully filmed and.

Callie [01:30:11] Yeah. Well-acted for sure.

Callie [01:30:16] I don’t know where to start. I mean I know you kind of have a more structured list of points. I really just have the one thing to say about it. So maybe you can let me know if that fits into any of the points you want to make.

Nichole [01:30:29] Okay.

Nichole [01:30:30] So my first time I have like five hot takes on the film that probably no one’s gonna think are that hot.

Callie [01:30:37] Such a social media professional. Just.

Nichole [01:30:41] Yes, overtaking the internet with her communism. They’re RED hot takes. Get it?

Nichole [01:30:56] So while my first hot take that I just think is kind of interesting.

Nichole [01:31:01] And this gets into a lot of what the film represents and what it’s supposed to rep was like, what things in the film represent, I should say. So this is a film where and I still haven’t found it. There’s an actual word for this, but there are. It’s a very like metaphorical film. And I think part of the problem that some people have with it is that they need to understand that it’s not literal, like it’s a huge allegory. And there’s actually like multiple. Like everything you have in the film that might symbolize one thing usually symbolizes like multiple things. So it’s like allegories within allegory as metaphors and within metaphors. And it’s in it’s very layered in that way. But one of the key things that I’ve seen everyone else on the Internet, when they talk about this film, they tend to refer to the pit as a prison. And I actually don’t think that it’s a prison at all. So this is called the Vertical Self-management Center, which is just too perfect.

Nichole [01:32:02] And we find out that most of the people, everyone who’s in there that we meet has gone in there voluntarily.

Nichole [01:32:12] With the exception of Baharat, which is like the last roommate, if you wanna say, floormate, for the main character Goreng, we just don’t know why he’s in there. We just never find out his backstory. But so it just occurred to me and then you kind of find out everyone’s backstory of not only like why they chose to go in there, but then you kind of learn something about who they are as a person. And what occurred to me. So, for instance, you have Goreng, who is the main character who went in to get an accredited degree. So basically the deal was if he goes into this this vertical self-management center for six months, he gets an accredited degree. And then he also is like, I couldn’t tell if it was a joke or not, but he wanted to stop smoking and he wanted to read Don Quixote. So those are his other reasons for signing up for this like brutal these brutal circumstances. And I was just thinking about him a lot. And it just occurred to me that that his allegory is sort of like or his representation is sort of like someone who maybe would join the military because they couldn’t afford to go to college. Right. So they have to sign up. They have to because she says to like you can’t come out once you go in until you’ve served your time. You know, there’s these rules around it and. It occurred to me that a lot of people are saying that the prison represents like capitalism and classism, but I don’t think that it really does. They think it’s not a prison. I think what it represents is like neo liberal solutions to the problems that capitalism creates and it incorporates the religious aspect. This whole movie is just drenched in like religious symbolism, which, you know, makes sense because Spain is a very religious Catholic country. So to me, too, that also is a good analogy for how like Christianity and capitalism go hand-in-hand and cause you to sort of choose to think that you’re choosing things of your own free will. Right. But you’re not really like there’s there’s not really options for you in this system, like so many people who sign up for the military. Sure.

Nichole [01:34:33] They voluntarily did that, I guess, but like only because their conditions were so dire that that was literally the only way that they saw to have any shot at a different, better future for themselves. So it’s just, you know, this idea of like predetermination or free will given certain circumstances, because, you know, they they say several times in the film, they allude to the fact that, like, there’s food and there’d be enough food for everyone, if only everybody would choose to only take what they need. So there’s this sense of like you’re getting this option, you have this free will that you can enact and you’re choosing to do something bad with it. But then when you really look at the structural setup of this whole thing, it’s like you can’t truly blame the individuals for how they’re acting within this brutal, ridiculous system. So we just see other people like Trimagasi, the first floormate, uh, chose to come in here instead of going to a mental institution. So we kind of see these ways that like people and, you know, he committed what could have been considered a hate crime, like he actually ended up killing somebody.

Nichole [01:35:46] So we kind of see the way that people choose and choose a different method rather than serving time or the ways that we just kind of gloss over what someone’s done and our ideas of reform within this system. We have someone later on who’s Imoguiri. I hope I’m saying that right. She comes in and she’s part of the system. She’s an administrator for like the state, essentially.

Nichole [01:36:18] And she kind of represents like. Privileged white women who use their money to donate to things and then think they know better about how to fix it. And don’t take the actual like situation seriously.

Nichole [01:36:34] So she comes in and she tries to like reform everybody as if she knows better than them when they’re like, we’ve been in here for months and we’re starving, like, get out of my face.

Nichole [01:36:44] So, yeah, that was my first big hot take. Piping hot.

Callie [01:36:51] Yeah, I just I really love that you talk about this take and I think it is really unique and that everyone’s kind of referring to it as a prison and how you didn’t see it as a prison. And I think you’re right. I don’t think it is. I mean, I think the fact that as far as we know, everyone has like come in voluntarily for one reason or another. I mean, some more voluntarily than others. But I think it is I think it’s more of a representation of like neo liberalism than it is like of a prison and like the horrors of prison. Like the fact that the main character. So I thought there was more emphasis on him wanting to quit smoking than there was him going into like get a degree. And it’s not really clear, as far as I can tell. You know, you see him in this, like, interview room with the the woman who ends up becoming his, you know, flatmate levelmate.

Callie [01:37:49] His second one after his first -spoiler alert- dies. But he’s like just this guy who’s like you. I just never really have enough time for reading. So I’m going to like bring in Don Quixote and I’m going to you know, I really want to quit smoking. And this will kind of force that. It just feels so much like. But some fuckin.

Callie [01:38:14] Person who’s choosing to go into like a boot camp or something, you know, like one of those like capitalists like, hey, like you’re soft because you live in this like privileged society. So you’re going to like have to rough it.

Callie [01:38:27] And it is just such a like kind of an offensive way that like privileged people momentarily put themselves in like a really cruel like hard environments that they can, like, test themselves or get something out of it. And it’s like.

Callie [01:38:47] People are forced into that, I don’t know, it’s just just kind of funny, right? He’s like this this nerdy guy who like tends to be quite empathetic, but he’s like, I want to read and I want to quit smoking and also get a degree out of going into agreeing to go into the system for six months.

Callie [01:39:01] And it’s like obviously he has no idea like what he’s really in for. But yeah, just that makes me chuckle. You know, the whole like how ridiculous it is. And then he gets in and it’s like literal hell, you know, like neoliberalism.

Nichole [01:39:20] I mean…

Callie [01:39:23] A little bit more on the nose than…

Nichole [01:39:27] And I think that’s a key part of it is this it also is a very good representation of how privileged people view the lived experiences and choices that other people have and how like flippantly they take those. You know, I can’t tell you how many people have very casually told me to enlist in the military when I was younger so that I could like get a college education, have some money. And it’s like, that’s four years of my life and me not having any control over where I go or what happens to me.

Nichole [01:40:04] And even if I got stationed, say, in Nebraska, right, and I never saw combat, that is still like to have your life controlled in that way for that long. Not to mention, you know, like women in the military tend to experience, incredibly heightened levels of sexual assault and are not able to talk about it or, you know, get any justice for it. And often end up getting discharged because of it, because, you know, they’re seen as a problem.

Nichole [01:40:37] Just there’s so many layers of how casually someone can tell you to, like, throw away your life because they don’t really care. They don’t want to deal with your problems. And they just wanted to point you to these. Right. Neoliberal solutions for the problems that capitalism has wrought on our economy and people’s choices.

Nichole [01:40:57] So, yeah, I love that, too.

Nichole [01:40:59] I did notice the degree more often and it might be because a like, you know, have so many tough feelings about my own education and my access that I had and abilities that I had to get one. But.

Nichole [01:41:15] But it does just show in general, like he definitely approach this as if it was gonna be like a detox retreat. Right.

Nichole [01:41:23] And then was like, what?

Nichole [01:41:27] This is literal hell! And it’s like, yeah, look, people live with, you know.

Nichole [01:41:33] So. Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole [01:41:39] So another thing that I took from this. And again, once I really understood that this was really supposed to be an allegory and was not supposed to represent like realistic things that were happening, this clicked into place for me. But so they move people between floors every 30 days. And it’s supposedly it’s randomized. So you get knocked out by sleeping gas on the 30th day and you wake up and you’re just on a new floor and you have no control over what that floor is gonna be. So. I felt like every character that we met in the movie represented and oftentimes represented multiple archetypes and then with the floors, what we were seeing was not 30 actual days of this person experiencing this floor, but what we were seeing is really like an era or a lifetime of this archetype and how they behave in certain circumstances. So you have Goreng, who seems like you said, you know, just kind of like a sleepy, normal average Joe kind of guy who’s seems nice and empathetic, but is like way in over his head and just doesn’t really, you know, hasn’t really experienced oppression in this way. And we see him go from like kind of a white savior type where he’s just coming in and being like, why don’t people just work together? Like, why don’t why don’t we do this? Why don’t we do that? To that end, where he’s pretty, pretty broken down and basically wanders off to die alone with all of his disgusting wounds that he acquired on his path down. But yeah, to me, he kind of represents like.

Nichole [01:43:32] Like the average person, an average person just not really having.

Nichole [01:43:35] I mean, there’s there’s hints that like he wasn’t fully privileged on the outside, the fact that he signed up for this to get an accredited degree. I think he represents sort of like the working class person who maybe is struggling a little bit, but also like hasn’t really felt the full weight of like structural oppression and. Right. So there’s a lot of ways in which are still ignorant and just, you know, how they’ll behave in different circumstances. And then same thing like Trimagasi to me represented sort of like the conservative right who is very willing and able to vilify other classes of people to, you know, just take his anger out on to steal from and not feel guilty about it, to blame for his own position.

Nichole [01:44:21] And, you know, when he’s on, I my favorite thought I had about this was like when they were on a somewhat higher floor where they did have access to food. He’s kind of like your racist uncle, you know, at the holiday family dinner where you’re like you’re racist and you’re kind of an asshole. But like also you’re kind of funny and I sort of love you because you’re in my family. Right? Like there were times and I thought he was really funny and cute. And then we get down to a lower floor and then you see like the darker side of that kind of person.

Nichole [01:44:54] So you could say in terms of, you know, how they talk to people, what actions they would support, how they would vote, what political views they hold.

Nichole [01:45:02] So now he becomes this like murdering, you know, self-interested party who’s willing to do anything to survive and has created this story for himself about the other that everyone else is like other from him, and that his own survival is the most important thing.

Nichole [01:45:23] So, yeah, that was to me, it helped the movie click together in a way where I saw some people online struggling with it because they’re like, oh, some of this stuff doesn’t make sense or whatever. But I think if we look at it this way, that each person there was kind of representing like an archetype of a person and just how like a change in circumstances can change the way that person behaves and interacts. But there’s also still some core characteristics there that are always driving that behavior.

Callie [01:45:54] I agree.

Callie [01:45:56] Nice hot. Take.

Nichole [01:45:59] Thanks.

Nichole [01:46:00] It’s piping hot.

Nichole [01:46:04] So I think something that we both have thoughts on is kind of how the movie represents revolution and the ways in which it gets it really wrong. And then I think there’s one way in which it gets it right. Sma- a smaller way than the ways that gets it wrong. But this is where I think and from interviews I read of the director, he was intentionally vague about kind of some of the messaging. But I think one thing he came through pretty clearly is that he said that this wasn’t supposed to be a social criticism. It’s supposed to be a social self-criticism. So I think his purpose. And it’s funny because they think he actually like proved himself wrong in a way. But I think his purpose with the movie was to show that basically, like humans, you know, are just too selfish. And no matter what we try, they end up like corrupting the system. So it’s not really the system.

Nichole [01:46:57] It’s humans that are causing the issues, like if people in the system would just like eat only what they need, you know, then they could maybe have like a better quality of life within the pit, but they will never do it. And he alludes to through the ways he through the ways he shows Goreng and then, you know, Goreng’s different floormates essentially trying to create.

Nichole [01:47:23] What they called in the movie like spontaneous solidarity, but they’re essentially trying to create different, better systems and different forms of protest and revolution. But they get it really wrong in the biggest way that they get it. Sorry. And within that, there’s allusion to things like socialism, communism or an anarchy in the things that they try to do to fix the system. So I think one of the biggest ways they get it wrong is they essentially show people working within the system instead of people like working without. So whatever people are trying to do, they’re always trying to do it within the rules of how this system works.

Callie [01:48:05] Mm hmm.

Nichole [01:48:06] Like, oh, we get this amount of food, so we’re just going to try to find a way to make this food stretch so that everyone can have at least food every other day so that they can literally survive. But it’s like always still operating within the rules that the system has put in place, which is where we know pretty much every time a revolution is at all successful, it’s because it’s working outside of the system, it’s breaking the system because systems are always set to work for the people in control and the people in power.

Nichole [01:48:37] So playing within those rules is never going to get you any kind of significant structural change for yourself. You always have to like operate outside of those rules.

Nichole [01:48:47] And the other way that it gets things really wrong is because is that it shows revolution happening from the top down. And that’s not how revolution works. When we see the closest thing to a successful revolution towards the end of the film. It’s Goreng and Baharat riding the platform down and brutally, physically and reinforcing who can eat and who can’t and how much they get. But revolution doesn’t work that way you don’t you don’t bash the heads of your fellow citizens and you certainly don’t bash the heads of the people below you. Right. Like the revolution goes upwards. The biggest base of people is at the bottom. And those are the people who have to come together and protect each other and perform mutual aid. And if there’s violence that has to be done, if it’s done upwards, it’s done to this state and the system and the ruling class, it’s not done downwards. So I thought that was really fucked up to show it that way. And I think he he intentionally showed things that weren’t working because again, I do think that this was supposed to be a criticism of communism and socialism, because this is people’s ideas of communism and socialism, right, is that they’re dictatorships, that they’re violent, that, you know, this is the only way that you can do it. Like like if you’re gonna have a government that’s doling out food. Right. It’s gonna have to be done in this violent and very controlling way. And so they essentially turn Goreng and Baharat into cops. Right. Protecting and going down. And it’s like, well, revolution doesn’t come out of cops. Revolution comes out of the people and it goes upwards. It doesn’t go downwards. So I just thought that was a really bad faith way. But but it to me, it actually like reinforce the message that I took out of the film, which is that, you know, capitalism corrupts people and that no matter what you do in a capitalist system, you cannot like as long as you’re working within the rules, like you cannot get ahead and that it’s rigged against you. Because, for instance, they finally do this revolution going down. And when they get to the bo- way before they get to the bottom, they discover that there’s just literally not enough food for everybody. So even they had like the top 50 floors, not eat anything. They strictly controlled the food they doled out, you know, small portions and they still ran out of food way before they got to the bottom. So, you know, I want to give the director credit. I mean, he put that in there. So maybe like he was trying to give a nod to that, but regardless of what he was trying to say. I think what I took out of it was very clear that like the the system is set up to create people who don’t have no matter what we all do, we’re not being given enough resources to make it work. And so we have to go take those resources. We can’t work within the rules of the system that’s set up around us.

Callie [01:51:50] So many thoughts.

Callie [01:51:54] I love everything you just said. Yeah, for me, it was really I really liked this movie because I feel like it was a blistering critique of capitalism and scarcity. But like so many people, I would say probably the vast majority of people who saw this, especially if they’re, you know, a neo liberal or normie or whatever, took this as like yet another reinforcement of like human nature is just naturally bad or evil or violent and that any sort of like communist, like utopia, where everyone’s able to share and give and take care of one another can never work because we’re all just like selfish and evil and, you know, disgusting. Right. But to me, this.

Callie [01:52:51] So there’s a there just it’s such a bad take. Like, it’s just such a classically bad take. It’s one of those things where I’m like, did you even see the same movie that I did? Because I don’t really understand how you could like you have that view. But let’s break it down. So the reason I feel so strongly that this is not actually a movie about and I can understand why the the director maybe that was his intent.

Callie [01:53:22] Right. This like self criticism, especially it being like a Spanish movie. And I don’t know the the religious views of the director, but I think it makes a lot of sense coming from like a highly Catholic country. Right. Because they I mean, they do guilt like no one else.

Callie [01:53:40] Right. There does all about this like.

Callie [01:53:44] And Christianity is baked into the ideas of Christianity that we are fallen. This role has fallen. We all have this like inherent sin that we’re born with that you have to choose to be forgiven for by like. I don’t even want to get into it, but there are just these things that you have to do, like you have to take this oath to Jesus, you know, in order to be like wiped clean of the original sin. So it makes a lot of sense why people would view this, why the author would maybe or director would view this in a way of like, oh, people are inherently bad, sinful and selfish. But this to me is the reason why I think it’s about capitalism and not a critique of like a socialism or communism not being able to work is because. There is a fake scarcity here. I mean, you said it perfectly when you said they they think that by you know, they are doing the mental math. They think that there are like 200 floors. They think that based on, you know, they’ve been counting and trying to figure out how long it takes a platform to go down. They think they know how many forces there is and they think they can judge how much food each person would get on the 200 floors in order to stretch it and make it work. But then they find out that there are actually three hundred and thirty three floors. So way more than they could have imagined. And that there is just absolutely no way to make sure everyone gets food. That is capitalism. That is a false scarcity mentality. You are in a system where it will encourage violence. It will in current encourage selfishness, especially since there is this like flipping around of people like every 30 days you get on a different floor. So it’s to try to override our sense of generosity. Right. Because even the people that feel like they’ve had enough and they go to a lower floor and the people on a lower offer that have maybe been starving for a month or on a floor that didn’t have any food. Now they get to the top. So I thought Thought Slime put it perfectly. He did a video on his channel, Scaredy Cats, which I would highly recommend people check out. But he says, quote, that this movie is based on a faulty premise. It’s not testing whether or not spontaneous solidarity will emerge. It’s testing to see if people’s natural solidarity is powerful enough to overcome a system that is engineered to counter it.

Callie [01:56:15] So.

Callie [01:56:17] I believe and I think there’s a lot of evidence to this that people are naturally empathetic. They are naturally caring. We are very social animals. We want the bonds of community. And I think that means that to a certain extent, we know that we want to give and and take care of each other. I think it’s this capitalist system that we’ve been born into for generations that is teaching us like there’s not enough to go around.

Callie [01:56:48] It is like kill or be killed. And you can’t worry about anyone else because at any point you could be knocked off of your level and put on a lower floor. Right. Like you can’t give what you have to people that are maybe homeless or starving because at any point you could lose your job. And then what are you going to do? So it’s. It teaches us to override our natural inclinations and to view each other as a competitor. And I think that’s why othering is so prevalent. I don’t think capitalism is the only reason. But I think that’s why because we have to have we already kind of have an inclination to figure out if someone is like us or different than us. And I think we need that to justify either treating them cruelly or just not helping them. Right.

Nichole [01:57:45] Yeah. Yeah. I love all that. And I think that also this is such an amazing analogy for capitalism and like neo liberalism, because it also shows that no matter how desperate your situations. There’s probably like all of these invisible people below you. Right. That are that are in more dire situations. And that.

Nichole [01:58:16] Your circumstances are pulling from theirs, essentially. So, you know, we start off on floor forty eight and then we’re told by Trimagasi that the lowest floor he’s been on is 132 and that there were floors below that. Then we end up on floor 171. Then we end up on floor like 30, 30 or 33, something like that.

Nichole [01:58:36] And we find out that the administrator person, the lowest floor she knows of is 200. And then they wake up on 202.

Nichole [01:58:48] So first of all, just props to this movie. I have never had a movie make a number so fucking like emotional.

Nichole [01:58:55] Like I literally had shots of fear run through me when like they would show what floor they woke up on. And I’d be like like scared.

Nichole [01:59:04] So anyway-.

Callie [01:59:05] I openly gasped. Like every time.

Nichole [01:59:08] I know, me too!

Callie [01:59:09] I was like a cartoon character in how like strong all of my reactions were.

Nichole [01:59:16] Yes.

Nichole [01:59:17] It was like mat- like masterful how they created so much anxiety around that. But. But the point is so when they finally, you know, have this take this stand and are are going to try to distribute the food evenly and then they realize that’s not going to work. And so they decide to send a message by preserving one of the dishes to send back up. You know, they’re going down and they get below. So at that point, once he was on 202, Goreng did this little experiment and thought that he calculated that there are 250 floors.

Nichole [01:59:55] So then they get to 250 and it keeps going down and keeps going down. And then you finally realize there are three hundred thirty three floors and you’re like, fuck. And it shows everyone below a certain point. Everybody’s dead. Everybody’s dead. And you realize that part of like this whole myth that there’s enough food is because they’re counting on people just being dead and the food not even needing to get to them. So it’s just such a beautiful representation of capitalism. And how many you know, like even we see it all the time. But say you have people who were in legitimate poverty and dire circumstances, but that like have white privilege and don’t really understand, like how much worse even some other people have it even within their own country, like people who live in areas that don’t even have sewage or electricity or anything. And then even those people don’t understand people from other countries that like our country is decimated or capitalism in general is just decimating. And how even worse they have it and the ways in which we like take them and bring them here to prop up this economy, that just as is I don’t know if we can say it’s failing or not because it’s kind of how its plan to be. But like that requires that endless churning of bodies through it to operate and to continue. And just how, you know, you say said it today like capital. Capitalism is a death cult like Mexie always talks about that and. And I just thought that was such a powerful visual representation of a system like that where there’s just always gonna be this unseen lower class that’s just dying and experiencing violence and hardship like we can’t even begin to fathom. And so even our lowest classes, like there’s just so much darkness even below that in this system.

Callie [02:01:54] Yeah.

Callie [02:01:55] Yeah. And again, I’ll just say that, like, I can’t imagine a better, more emotionally impactful representation of capitalism and what it does to us than knowing that like. The scarcity is fake. There is absolutely no reason why people need to be fed in this like platform system. Right. And there is no reason why there couldn’t be enough food there.

Callie [02:02:27] There are literally making like extravagant cakes and as cargo and like all of these fancy dishes and food, you have this exacting chef that we see flashes of who’s on level zero, who’s like raking his cooks, his chefs like over the coals if everything is not perfect.

Callie [02:02:48] Right. And beautiful presentation, it it looks like what you would imagine a five star restaurant would be right.

Callie [02:02:54] The chef was just expecting everything to be absolutely beautiful and perfectly prepared in a system where the food doesn’t even usually make it beyond 50 floors and we find out that there are 333. So there’s just no reason for there not to be enough food. And that is what capitalism is like. We know right now that we if we work long hours, everyone’s working.

Callie [02:03:21] Most people who are working jobs that like don’t even matter. Right. We’re working so hard. We we labor so much for things that are unimportant, that do not matter. We overproduce food just so we can walk through the grocery store and pick the best looking apple, the best looking avocado.

Callie [02:03:42] And then about a third of our food minimum is just thrown out every month. Not even given to people who don’t have food.

Callie [02:03:49] It’s literally thrown out. It is a fake scarcity in order to threaten people, to keep laboring, to keep producing, to keep eating food and spitting on it so that the floor below you gets the message. Right. It is it is such a clear example to me of like how are our natural inclinations are overridden by a falsely cruel system?

Nichole [02:04:20] Yes. Oh, my God. Yes. And it and it’s reminds me of how. Right now, I mean, we have people lining up for food banks in record numbers. Right. There’s people can’t they don’t have food. They’re running out of access to that. And we also have farmers who are destroying crops or killing livestock because they don’t have the restaurants ordering that food. And so instead of just donating to the food banks that literally have by hundreds or thousands of people. Right. Lining up. They can’t make a profit off of it. They’re just going to destroy it. And exactly what you’re saying, like what a better. This movie just did the most phenomenal job of representing that mentality in like a, you know, kind of physical form or assert a certain symbol of like, yeah, this false scarcity.

Callie [02:05:18] I mean, we’re literally dumping out thousands, if not millions of gallons of milk. And I don’t like that milk is a product that’s produced. Right. It’s unnecessary. It’s cruel and all that stuff. But they’re dumping it out. They are slaughtering animals by the thousands just because there’s no restaurants, like you said, buying them yet. Like. You could just give the food to people. Right. You could have an even if you were worried about people giving things away for free. You could have the government paying them. In fact, they are paying farmers to produce these things. And it’s not getting to the people. You could have Congress right now just creating like even temporary UBI programs that say like, hey, as long as we’re in this crisis, we’re gonna be sending everyone a check. But that would show us that it’s fake, that they could be doing that anyway. And so they can’t help us even when we need it, because they’re worried about what that would mean afterwords that people would see that they’re they’re struggling. The fact that they don’t have medical care is unnecessary. Like the fact that we’re talking about, oh, let’s cover any any medical bills related to COVID-19. And it’s like if we can do that, like what is different than someone suffering from COVID-19 than they are suffering from the flu or suffering from cancer. Right. But they can’t they can’t bear that people realize. That it’s all the same and that it is unnecessary and it’s just cruel to keep us in line. I mean, you have these fucking yahoos online like talking about how like, see, this is why we need the police and this is why we need the economic system that we have because people are so bad and cruel and aggressive. And it’s like they’re only like that because they’re making people like that on purpose.

Nichole [02:07:23] Exactly.

Callie [02:07:24] It’s so frustrating, man. It’s so frustrating.

Nichole [02:07:28] It’s so frustrating. Just. Yeah. Unbelievably so.

Nichole [02:07:36] So one thing the movie does represent really well in terms of revolution is that there should be a focus on workers and that workers are the ones that really have the power to actually make a difference in the system.

Nichole [02:07:52] So the movie gets to a certain point and they’re counseled by a wise man, again, heavy on the biblical references.

Nichole [02:08:02] They’re counseled by a wise man that, you know, they cause initially they’re just trying to get food down to everybody. And that’s really all that they’re trying to do. And he says, like, well, like, what are you going to do this every day?

Nichole [02:08:16] And this isn’t going to change anything. So you need to send a message up. And then, you know, they kind of guess like, oh, are we sending a message to the administration, which is what the state is called if you will. And he says, no. The administration is never going to change anything. And they’re not going to pay attention. They won’t even see your message. They won’t care. You need to try to impact the workers and then hope that the workers take the message and decide to take action with it. So I thought that was really good because that is true in revolution. Like workers have phenomenal power and a real revolution that’s actually going to change things structurally needs needs, a strong worker movement, which is why in the U.S. and I think in a lot of other countries, unions have been under such heavy dismantling over the last several decades is because they know that workers are where the power is. And not just in the workers themselves, but in the unionizing, in the organizing, in the having each other’s back and having those resources and being able to communicate like that’s all a big part of it, because strikes can’t happen effectively on a one off basis. You need to be unified with people. And that’s something we saw coming out of, you know, people calling for rent strikes and general strikes. Like I was happy to see that a lot of people stepped forward to say, like, well, don’t just strike like out of nowhere on your own. Like if you’re going to do a rent strike, you need to do it with your whole whatever it is. You know, apartment unit or whatever it is. But like, you all need to be on the same page any to do it together in solidarity. Otherwise you’re just gonna get evicted.

Callie [02:09:57] Right.

Nichole [02:09:58] And then nothing like no message has actually come through and nothing’s going to change. So so that though that was good at least showing and putting that importance and emphasis on the workers in the kitchen, because it’s very true that those are the people you would need to mobilize in order to actually really change anything.

Callie [02:10:17] Yeah. Yeah, you need to reach the workers in the system who have more power and privilege than you, but still not. You know, it’s like their work. Their work contributes to the system being maintained. But they’re not the people who like are like the administrators that wholly benefit from it. You know, they’re not going to change. We’re gonna have to steal their wealth and power and privilege like out of their fucking fingers, you know?

Nichole [02:10:46] Yes.

Callie [02:10:47] They are not going to give it up willingly. But all the people that are there supporting it, who are selling out the other people, they can maybe be reached.

Nichole [02:10:57] Absolutely.

Callie [02:10:58] Yeah.

Nichole [02:10:59] Yeah. Like Jeff Bezos couldn’t do shit, couldn’t have anything if all of his workers walked out at the same time.

Callie [02:11:06] Yeah.

Nichole [02:11:08] His whole empire would crumble.

Callie [02:11:09] Yeah.

Callie [02:11:10] And I’m going to get political again, just like you’re never to get people. Shocker, right?

Nichole [02:11:16] Woah!

Callie [02:11:18] You’re not going to get people like Nancy Pelosi to listen to you, but all of the fuckin Progressives that are running thinking that they can get in and change the system like those are the people that keep it in place. She’s one person, right. But it’s like all the people that are like somewhat benefiting but are trying to make things better. Like that.

Callie [02:11:40] Those are the ones that maybe you can reach. The people like AOC is the people that run thinking that they can change the system from the inside.

Nichole [02:11:50] Yeah.

Nichole [02:11:51] Yeah. People only have power as long as we recognize that power.

Callie [02:11:54] Exactly. Exactly.

Nichole [02:11:56] And that’s why there’s things like the institution of police, because they create an environment where it is dangerous for us and an existential threat for us to not recognize that power.

Callie [02:12:10] Yeah.

Nichole [02:12:11] And they keep it in place. And then you have Hollywood and the media also jumping in to program us. Right. To recognize that power. And then you fast forward to a situation like today where people are literally voluntarily going out and reinforcing that power against their own best interests because they’re so indoctrinated with thinking that this is this is how things should work.

Callie [02:12:35] Yeah. And rich ghouls have always known this. They’ve always known that they have to keep especially the working class, the lower class divided amongst like . I don’t want to say unimportant issues because obviously some of these things are incredibly important, but. Issues that would divide us along economic lines, issues that would keep us from seeing that there is solidarity. It’s why. Honestly and we’ve talked about this before. You know, the police force in the United States was literally created to create a racial divide between poor whites and poor people of color, most especially like poor black folks. Right. Because if you give poor white people a little bit of power and you tell them that, like they get to view they get a little taste of the power of moving up. As long as you try to keep these others down, then it keeps us like broken. It keeps us from seeing that there is a lot more in common amongst the working class with each other than there is someone who’s maybe like lower middle class to the actual rich class. But you have to keep us fighting along racial lines amongst gender lines or, you know, what have you.

Nichole [02:13:51] Yeah.

Callie [02:13:52] Yeah.

Callie [02:13:55] That’s effective as hell.

Nichole [02:13:57] It really is. And, you know, the more. The more that we go along in this pandemic and the more that I just look around me, the more scared I am because it is really effective. And they’ve done a masterful job of this over the last several decades, and I just don’t I don’t know. I don’t know if we can de-program enough people and enough time to do anything. It’s just we’re literally like in a very similar position as other countries before they fell to dictatorships. And and in terms of like the people as well and the mentality, you know, not just the like logistical, like how our economy is and everything else. So so yeah. But yeah, this movie highly recommend it if you haven’t seen it. We spoiled some things for you, but still definitely worth watching. And and I just think it really.

Nichole [02:15:00] Calls to mind just a lot of stuff we’ve discussed on the show around capitalism already, but gave us a good opportunity to sort of put some of those thoughts together. And I think especially just this concept of of how we look at resources and what we’ll accept from this system, the ways in which Callie I know you’ve brought it up several times recently, but I think this is another good reinforcement of what you’re always saying about people like not having imagination and not being able to picture anything except what the like, how people will accept these are the rules and not think like, well, fuck the rules, let’s do something else right.

Nichole [02:15:42] I think it was it was a good representation of that too. Just this idea that it’s like, well, the platform has the food and that’s like, that’s it. And and no, no other thought arounds like, well, how are the other ways that we could do something here?

Callie [02:16:00] Good movie, though.

Nichole [02:16:02] Good movie.

Nichole [02:16:03] Yeah, I watched it three times, very close together, two times in one day. And honestly, like it holds up. Like, I could watch it like three more times. Like, it’s it’s really well done.

Callie [02:16:16] Yeah.

Callie [02:16:18] Yeah, I highly recommend it. I mean, I hope people. Start talking about like the true meaning of it, you know, and not let it kind of convince us like, oh, I guess things will never get better because we’re all just too selfish, you know, to try or too selfish to, like, work together. I don’t think that’s the message at all.

Callie [02:16:40] So. Yeah.

Nichole [02:16:43] No. Yeah, I agree.

Callie [02:16:46] Yeah, well, all right.

Nichole [02:16:50] I don’t know if we know wjat we’re talking about next week, so we won’t tease it.

Callie [02:16:55] Yes.

Nichole [02:16:56] But if you simply can not get enough of us another reminder that we are now livestreaming.

Nichole [02:17:03] Wednesday nights at 5 p.m. Pacific Time. Every week we do an hour on YouTube and we just talk about whatever’s on our mind and interact with people commenting on the livestream. And it’s been really fun. We’ve had two sessions so far. So if you’re hearing this the day that this comes out, that means it’s tomorrow. And if it’s already too late for you this week, there’s always another week ahead. With our beautiful shining faces and our endless copious amounts of rage

Callie [02:17:39] Nothing has summed us up better.

Nichole [02:17:42] Just so there’s.

Callie [02:17:44] That’s the media we offer just endless-

Nichole [02:17:48] Yes, endless copious amounts of rage.

Callie [02:17:51] But we always are able to throw in some humor. As you all know, you’re able to laugh about it that helps.

Nichole [02:17:59] Yes.

Nichole [02:18:00] You gotta keep it light while you’re getting real dark.

Callie [02:18:03] Yes. Yeah, exactly.

Nichole [02:18:05] Yeah. But you can find us on YouTube.

Nichole [02:18:07] Just search Bitchy Shitshow. Shockingly, we’re the only channel out there with that name. Or we have links to all of our social media and other platforms in the show notes.

Callie [02:18:18] Yes.

Callie [02:18:18] Yeah. And if you do miss the livestream, the videos do stay up on our YouTube channel so you can always watch it after the fact. Probably not as fun. But also, again, if you just feel like you need more of our rage in your life, that is available.

Nichole [02:18:34] Yes. And they have been very ragey so far so.

Callie [02:18:36] Very ragey.

Nichole [02:18:41] Highly recommend.

Callie [02:18:42] Yeah. All right y’all. We will talk to you next week.

Nichole [02:18:46] Bye bye.

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